Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
- Thread starter Dirtyking
- Start date
The Golden Boy
Fleecy Sweaterologist
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
Go with a Hot Plate, that's the best I've heard. I've also heard it's a reactive load, unlike the PowerBrake and PowerSoak.
Yanking two tubes and "halfing" your impedance isn't all that noticable really.
Go with a Hot Plate, that's the best I've heard. I've also heard it's a reactive load, unlike the PowerBrake and PowerSoak.
Yanking two tubes and "halfing" your impedance isn't all that noticable really.
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
I'd go with a DR. Z Airbrake. Those are dirt-simple to use, dont get very hot, and most importantly they only noticeably affect your tone if you put them on "bedroom level". I don't know what I'd do without mine!
Occasionally people will complain about the HotPlat altering tone for feel too much... usually those people are much happier with airbrakes.
I'd go with a DR. Z Airbrake. Those are dirt-simple to use, dont get very hot, and most importantly they only noticeably affect your tone if you put them on "bedroom level". I don't know what I'd do without mine!
Occasionally people will complain about the HotPlat altering tone for feel too much... usually those people are much happier with airbrakes.
Rich_S
HomeGrownToneBrewologist
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
Yeah, pulling two tubes will just take off some headroom, and not reduce volume much. An attenuator is the way to go. There are plenty of good ones out there.
Something else to consider: cranking a 100 watt head into an attenuator is a good way to turn quads of expensive octal outputs tubes into waste heat. If I were you, I'd think about adding a small amp to my stable for rehearsals and small gigs. Something with 2 6V6's or EL84's. That way, you can get to the sweet spot without the volume. If you get a combo, you can use it alone when portability is most important, then plug it into your 4x12 when you want big-amp thump at small-amp volumes.
Yeah, pulling two tubes will just take off some headroom, and not reduce volume much. An attenuator is the way to go. There are plenty of good ones out there.
Something else to consider: cranking a 100 watt head into an attenuator is a good way to turn quads of expensive octal outputs tubes into waste heat. If I were you, I'd think about adding a small amp to my stable for rehearsals and small gigs. Something with 2 6V6's or EL84's. That way, you can get to the sweet spot without the volume. If you get a combo, you can use it alone when portability is most important, then plug it into your 4x12 when you want big-amp thump at small-amp volumes.
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
Warning on the resistive vs reactive load. Some amp companies will void your warranty if you use a reactive load attenuator a la Hot Plate. They tend to fry output trannies. The Power Brake is a resistive load......basically the juice coming out of your amp is used to run the cooling fan at various speeds.....no backup in the power section. basically fools the amp into thinking it is driving into extra speakers. i have been told that the Dr Z works the same way.
Warning on the resistive vs reactive load. Some amp companies will void your warranty if you use a reactive load attenuator a la Hot Plate. They tend to fry output trannies. The Power Brake is a resistive load......basically the juice coming out of your amp is used to run the cooling fan at various speeds.....no backup in the power section. basically fools the amp into thinking it is driving into extra speakers. i have been told that the Dr Z works the same way.
Chaos
New member
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
Where did you hear that? A HotPlate is an RL device that responds like a ‘real’ speaker. It will not void your warranty and they do not “tend to fry output trannies”
Maybe you could back up your claims with link(s) to an amp manufacturer’s warranty statement(s) or demonstrate the electrical principles involved that would cause a HotPlate to damage a transformer.
Public statements that deride a product without supporting proof can get you into legal trouble.
jdm61 said:
Where did you hear that? A HotPlate is an RL device that responds like a ‘real’ speaker. It will not void your warranty and they do not “tend to fry output trannies”
Maybe you could back up your claims with link(s) to an amp manufacturer’s warranty statement(s) or demonstrate the electrical principles involved that would cause a HotPlate to damage a transformer.
Public statements that deride a product without supporting proof can get you into legal trouble.
Pink Unicorn Horsey
Megä Pöny Rÿdr
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
I'd like to read more about this claim. I'm not agreeing it's true or untrue. However, I own and use a Hot Plate so if this thing is going to f-up my amp I want to know. If the claim is baseless then I'm not going to worry.
+1Chaos said:
I'd like to read more about this claim. I'm not agreeing it's true or untrue. However, I own and use a Hot Plate so if this thing is going to f-up my amp I want to know. If the claim is baseless then I'm not going to worry.
Rich_S
HomeGrownToneBrewologist
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
If anything, he's got the reactive/resistive thing backwards. Real speakers are extremely reactive, and reactive attentuators look more like speakers to an amp than plain resistors do.
The old, purely-resistive attenuators (anybody remember the Altair?) got a bad rep for damaging amps, deserved or not.
Also consider the Weber MASS - it actually has a speaker motor assembly (cone-less magnet and coil) inside to provide the reactive load. I really like my MiniMASS, but you'd need one of the big ones.
If anything, he's got the reactive/resistive thing backwards. Real speakers are extremely reactive, and reactive attentuators look more like speakers to an amp than plain resistors do.
The old, purely-resistive attenuators (anybody remember the Altair?) got a bad rep for damaging amps, deserved or not.
Also consider the Weber MASS - it actually has a speaker motor assembly (cone-less magnet and coil) inside to provide the reactive load. I really like my MiniMASS, but you'd need one of the big ones.
Young Angus
Kometose Tonologist
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
Yeah im with you...i own a hotplate and i feel it detracts from the tone too much for my liking...one day i plan to get myself an airbrake.
B2D said:
Yeah im with you...i own a hotplate and i feel it detracts from the tone too much for my liking...one day i plan to get myself an airbrake.
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
i had the resistive/reactive thing backwards. The manufacturer of my 18 watt states in his warranty conditions that using a resitive attenuator automatically voids the lifetime warranty on the amp and further goes on to say that he recommends the Power Brake and Dr Z for use with his amps. As i am not an amp builder or tech, i would tend to take him at his word as the difference between using one or the other attenuator is getting a fairly expensive amplifier repaired gratis or having to shell out the cash for a repair. even if the attentuator did not cause the damage. Nothing actionable in that statement.
i am assuming that he has a good reason for including that clause in the warranty. No axe to grind here with any Iequipment manufacturer. If Hot Plate is a reactive attenuator, then it would be ok, I would guess. i do know that the Power Soak is an definite no-no for my amp.
i had the resistive/reactive thing backwards. The manufacturer of my 18 watt states in his warranty conditions that using a resitive attenuator automatically voids the lifetime warranty on the amp and further goes on to say that he recommends the Power Brake and Dr Z for use with his amps. As i am not an amp builder or tech, i would tend to take him at his word as the difference between using one or the other attenuator is getting a fairly expensive amplifier repaired gratis or having to shell out the cash for a repair. even if the attentuator did not cause the damage. Nothing actionable in that statement.
i am assuming that he has a good reason for including that clause in the warranty. No axe to grind here with any Iequipment manufacturer. If Hot Plate is a reactive attenuator, then it would be ok, I would guess. i do know that the Power Soak is an definite no-no for my amp.
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Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
I had one of those little weber ones , still have it, rigged for 8 ohms. damn thing got so hot that it would burn you. that just can't be good and I've never used it since. wasted $50.
Dr. Z is using a licensed design from ken fischer's trainwreck stuff. I'd have complete confidence using it. the weber big mass one looks to be rock solid as well.
I had one of those little weber ones , still have it, rigged for 8 ohms. damn thing got so hot that it would burn you. that just can't be good and I've never used it since. wasted $50.
Dr. Z is using a licensed design from ken fischer's trainwreck stuff. I'd have complete confidence using it. the weber big mass one looks to be rock solid as well.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
all attenuators will get hot...the Airbrake and the kendrick are the best as for NOT getting hot but they do still put off some heat...your Weber MASS or THD Hot Plate getting hot is 100% normal.
Dirtyking: As to where to get an Attenuator, Music Toyz has both the Dr. Z and the hotplate, and Dr. Z dealer can get the Dr. Z, you can order a Weber MASS direct from Ted Weber and if you want the best attenuator you can get order a Kendrick direct from kendrick.
Whatever you guys do, DO NOT buy a Marshall Powerbrake or the Scholtz Power soak...those are simply too hard on your amp.
all attenuators will get hot...the Airbrake and the kendrick are the best as for NOT getting hot but they do still put off some heat...your Weber MASS or THD Hot Plate getting hot is 100% normal.
Dirtyking: As to where to get an Attenuator, Music Toyz has both the Dr. Z and the hotplate, and Dr. Z dealer can get the Dr. Z, you can order a Weber MASS direct from Ted Weber and if you want the best attenuator you can get order a Kendrick direct from kendrick.
Whatever you guys do, DO NOT buy a Marshall Powerbrake or the Scholtz Power soak...those are simply too hard on your amp.
Peterku
New member
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
You could consider a TAD Silencer, too. It has a few toneshaping functions (I've heard them in action, they're great), doesn't get hot (just warm, even with a cranked Nomad after an hour), and has a line out with cab sim, so that you won't have to use mics at gigs. I have a friend who swears by that box.
You could consider a TAD Silencer, too. It has a few toneshaping functions (I've heard them in action, they're great), doesn't get hot (just warm, even with a cranked Nomad after an hour), and has a line out with cab sim, so that you won't have to use mics at gigs. I have a friend who swears by that box.
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
AHA!!!!!! Christian is doing the same thing i was guilty of:laugh2: The Power Brake is the same as the Dr Z. It was designed to avoid the shortcomings and potential harmful effects of the Scholz Power Soak. It surprised me that Tom Scholz would have designed such a device considering how good of an engineer and designer he is.
AHA!!!!!! Christian is doing the same thing i was guilty of:laugh2: The Power Brake is the same as the Dr Z. It was designed to avoid the shortcomings and potential harmful effects of the Scholz Power Soak. It surprised me that Tom Scholz would have designed such a device considering how good of an engineer and designer he is.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
the Marshall power brake is NOT the same design as the Dr. Z Airbrake...
the Marshall power brake is NOT the same design as the Dr. Z Airbrake...
Re: Power Brake or Pull some Tubes
Same as far as the resistive v. reactive argument. In my case, I picked the marshall cause I knew about it and i was able to find one for a pretty good price on ebay. great thing for me is neither of the manufacturers of my amps are going to bitch about me usig the power brake if i need warranty repairs....at least Marshall had BETTER not:laugh2: Wasn'tthe power soak a series of big ole caps that soak up the current? great idea......fry the amp and eletrocute the user when he disconnects it from the fried amp :chairfall
Same as far as the resistive v. reactive argument. In my case, I picked the marshall cause I knew about it and i was able to find one for a pretty good price on ebay. great thing for me is neither of the manufacturers of my amps are going to bitch about me usig the power brake if i need warranty repairs....at least Marshall had BETTER not:laugh2: Wasn'tthe power soak a series of big ole caps that soak up the current? great idea......fry the amp and eletrocute the user when he disconnects it from the fried amp :chairfall
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