Problems with cutting through the mix.

[Lewguitar]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

Lew, I find moving the whole pickup closer gives a fatter tone....not the polepieces.....the entire pickup. I do find more treble with the poles higher though. I talked to this guy and he mentioned to not radius and I like the thicker tone I get.

You mention 1/16". I am a few turns closer. I know I am using my ears but does that seem to high?

I totally agree. Moving the whole pickup closer does fatten up the tone and when you move the whole pickup closer you also move the polepieces closer so the pickup gets both fatter AND brighter. There are no rules anymore about how close or how far away...what ever gives you the tone you're after and inspires you to play better is the "right" way.

You can move a bridge humbucker pretty darn close the strings and get away with it.

Not the case with a Strat single coil tho...get to close and the magnets will pull the strings out of tune.

Just play some stuff on the low E string above the 12th fret and see if the string is being pulled out of tune...if it is, move the pickup a turn or two further away on that side...the low E side...until the string plays in tune above the 12th fret.

The high E string doesn't get pulled out of the tune to the degree that the low E does...the pickup can be closer on that side if you like the extra bite to the treble that gets you.

Lew

 

[papersoul]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

Lew, I'll try that above the 12th fret as you suggested....but I don't recall anything being out of tune. I thought by out of tune...you meant that the entire guitar would go out of tune on all strings and in the open position.

My guitar does go a little sharp at times but I think the nut slots need widening.

I also got worried when you had said to set it about 1/16" and another guy said to never go above 1/16".

Thing is, i had a long talk with the owner of BCR Music in PA......the guy owns a ton of LPs and Hamers. He said his pickups almost touch the strings and sometimes he puts little divits in the bobbins from having them so close and playing so hard.

He said the same as you , that single coils are a bigger problem. He also said the tuning issues and wolfe tones/false notes have never been an issue with humbuckers in his experience so I guess my ears do have the final say. LOL!

WLL,

I do want to try a Custom in my LP.

 

[WARRENLEELYNCH]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

Lew, I'll try that above the 12th fret as you suggested....but I don't recall anything being out of tune. I thought by out of tune...you meant that the entire guitar would go out of tune on all strings and in the open position.

My guitar does go a little sharp at times but I think the nut slots need widening.

I also got worried when you had said to set it about 1/16" and another guy said to never go above 1/16".

Thing is, i had a long talk with the owner of BCR Music in PA......the guy owns a ton of LPs and Hamers. He said his pickups almost touch the strings and sometimes he puts little divits in the bobbins from having them so close and playing so hard.

He said the same as you , that single coils are a bigger problem. He also said the tuning issues and wolfe tones/false notes have never been an issue with humbuckers in his experience so I guess my ears do have the final say. LOL!

WLL,

I do want to try a Custom in my LP.

to put your mind at rest you can set a pup(HUMBUCKERS only) to the point of where they are just about touching the strings(less than a 16th) but most find that tone to be too garbled and harsh. i know i do!
but it is just a opinion not a rule.
set them to where your ears go "AHHHHHH :bowdown: thats it!" :laugh2:

 

[papersoul]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

rich you gotta try the custom seriously! i think you have described it a tousand times :laugh2: it will be the answer to your prayers :fing2:

I think I am down to the BBQ, the JB, or the Custom was initially doing ot for me but I am losing interest. Lots of guys love it but it's not my tone or what I am going for. It has a very vintage flavor and I am going for a huge and thick modern tone and so far the best I found is the BBQ.

That upper mid spike of the JB can be annoying and the Custom is supposed to have it.

 

[Marcel]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

Yeah honk the amp lower bass and gain. Much bass and gain sounds good and fat if you play alone, much mids and a bit less gain sounds fat in the mix an cut through it.
Btw i would recommend a JB too though no experience with the C5.

 

[Marcel]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

I totally agree. Moving the whole pickup closer does fatten up the tone and when you move the whole pickup closer you also move the polepieces closer so the pickup gets both fatter AND brighter. There are no rules anymore about how close or how far away...what ever gives you the tone you're after and inspires you to play better is the "right" way.

You can move a bridge humbucker pretty darn close the strings and get away with it.

Not the case with a Strat single coil tho...get to close and the magnets will pull the strings out of tune.

Just play some stuff on the low E string above the 12th fret and see if the string is being pulled out of tune...if it is, move the pickup a turn or two further away on that side...the low E side...until the string plays in tune above the 12th fret.

The high E string doesn't get pulled out of the tune to the degree that the low E does...the pickup can be closer on that side if you like the extra bite to the treble that gets you.

Lew

Ah nice post lew! Does the magnetic pull change the tune that much. I got very much problems with the tune above 12th fret as i had the custom installed. With the JB it's no problem. Could this be the magnetic pull of the Ceramic magnet. or does this have to be an other factor? It could have been the trem either.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

Yeah honk the amp lower bass and gain. Much bass and gain sounds good and fat if you play alone, much mids and a bit less gain sounds fat in the mix an cut through it.
Btw i would recommend a JB too though no experience with the C5.

I do use a lot of mids and less gain for gigs, but I am finding I like some of those mids to come from the pickup to give a beefier tone. I just think that having good bass response from the guitar, pickup and amp is also good because it's not like bass player is always following me exactly.

Is the JB thicker in a Les Paul compared to a C5?

So far the thickest I've found is the BBQ, but it has huge "in your face" bass and thick mids.

Marcel,
I have heard a few mention that the Custom due to the ceramic magnet should be set further from the strings.

 

[Marcel]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

Marcel,
I have heard a few mention that the Custom due to the ceramic magnet should be set further from the strings.

fftopic:
does somebody know how much more the Custom have to be away? I am now having the JB very near to the strins (<.7mm between srew and string if i play the 24th) and it sounds that great. Very warm smooth and still tight.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

Cc !!!

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

And cutting through does not have much to do with the output. I think for me setup custom was not good at all. Ok gibson 500T was aweful, but custom was not good either.

In terms of the cut through index I just came up in my head my first choice would be the glorious timbuckers, then rolphs, then a5/a3 modded ants and PG+. As you see all are PAF clones, and that PAF thing is really built to cut through. All those are bright, but tone controls are done for a reason, don't forget that.

C.C. has other nice things to offer. It is thicker, and cuts through in a different way. You know how I feel about BBQ hence I am not gonna repeat that. CC is great, yet on dark amps you might need the extra punch of the c5. Then a3 magnets are life savers!

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

BTW with your c5/bb pro loaded LP, why don't you try the following tone: Mid position (wait don't diss that right away), bridge vol 10 tone to be adjusted later (I would say somewhere around 7 8), neck vol 8-9 depending on your setup, and neck tone at 2-3 (specifically the spot after which it becomes blur). That might work!

 

[papersoul]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

And cutting through does not have much to do with the output. I think for me setup custom was not good at all. Ok gibson 500T was aweful, but custom was not good either.

In terms of the cut through index I just came up in my head my first choice would be the glorious timbuckers, then rolphs, then a5/a3 modded ants and PG+. As you see all are PAF clones, and that PAF thing is really built to cut through. All those are bright, but tone controls are done for a reason, don't forget that.

C.C. has other nice things to offer. It is thicker, and cuts through in a different way. You know how I feel about BBQ hence I am not gonna repeat that. CC is great, yet on dark amps you might need the extra punch of the c5. Then a3 magnets are life savers!

Hi Doc! All I can say is that to me the BBQ sounds so thick and rich and down right mean and aggressive!

Now, since installing the C-5 in my LP.....I find I am fairly bright from clean to heavy and again I am running a Line 6 Vetta II head and cab for gigs. I just wish I could get more "meat" from the C-5 and less of a bright edge. I guess the CC and C-5 are considered PAF?

I am afraid to try the JB because DO NOT want less bass. I like a beefy low end. The BBQ sounds rich and thick next to my C-5. But, these are different guitars. The BBQ is in my Dean Evo which is darker than my LP and not as lively....so I realize I may feel different about it in my LP.

I also do want to try the CC as you say Doc.

What about the Timbuckers? I talked to him and he said they are very clear....are they thick?

Also Doc, I have goor quality 500k CTS audio taper pots and .022 caps so I do have a lot of control with roll-off. I'll try your setting.

I also may end up with a Timbucker in the bridge.
I notice you keep pointing me to the CC.

PS.......I talked to a guy who owns a store in central PA....good guy and gigs all the time! He recommended over all others, the Rio set for me as he said he has tried everything and always comes back to the Rios. I have to go witrh what my ears like and so far they are it. I would LOVE to find a Duncan or other p'up that has the thickness and bass of the BBQ but a tad more highs and clarity. Something that compresses well, is round, warm and tight even under high gain. Does it exist?? :smack:

 

[Push to Shuv]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

You can raise the pole peices on the middle strings a little bit, thats what i do with mine as well as dial in some mids and cut out some bass on my amp. The C-5 sounds great live...with the proper settings, im playing a big show tonight with one.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

You can raise the pole peices on the middle strings a little bit, thats what i do with mine as well as dial in some mids and cut out some bass on my amp. The C-5 sounds great live...with the proper settings, im playing a big show tonight with one.

Thanks, I do have the poles adjusted or radiused even though I had recently switched to having them flush but I find a more focused tone with them raised or radiused. I have the C-5 about 1/16" from the strings also. I just find it too nice sounding. The Rio BBQ is flat out mean sounding and aggressive.

I feel like I still want more deep lows like with the BBQ in my Dean Evo Premium. Maybe it really is that guitar, because the Dean is very dark and deep sounding. My LP is more out front, brighter and lively, while still sounding deep. I just need to find the right pickup to balance. I feel at the moment with the C-5 in my LP.......I'd like a meaner toner, more aggressive, thicker, maybe a tad more bass. Not more output!

I find the JB lacking in deep bass to really fill out the tone. For our style of aggressive 90's rock meets modern hard rock/metal, I need an aggressive tone with more meat and low end. I know the guitar is a midrange instrument but I notice a big difference in the depth of my tone when a p'up has in your face bass.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Problems with cutting through the mix.

bump, if you don't mind.