Question for Duncan the company

[The Dali]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

Hi guys - interesting discussion. I like reading GP and other guitar magazines because they are about guitars!!! I realize that NOTHING PRINTED IN THE REVIEW SECTIONS is ever credible. But, I still like reading about new merchandise and equipment.

I, too, found it VERY odd that Duncan wasn't included in the roundup (even a Duncan Designed), and while I appreciate Guitar Player's byline about Duncan not sending in a pickup sample - I almost felt it was a strong statement that Duncan declined to participate (almost like they were slightly miffed that Duncan didn't send in).

I DID think it was interesting that GFS was included... all the pickups tested were either high-end mainstream (Dimarzio, Gibson) or high-end boutique (Lollar, Throbak, etc) and then GFS was included. They were the only pickup manufactured in China (the rest were USA)... and $45 - $150 less PER PICKUP... so why were they part of the lineup?? Why not Wilkinson? PRS? Artec? Epiphone? Entwhistle? Mighty-Mite? LTD? Hamer? Others? That really stood out to me, and in my opinion undermined the legitimacy of the testing (GFS does a fair amount of advertising in GP). Their inclusion didn't seem necessary unless the testing was a true test that included a variety of manufacturers, markets, and price points.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

freefrog posted this link http://www.guitarplayer.com/video/gear/3395697489001

I like it, valuable info.

Great way of comparing them.

What I was struck by was how extremely similar they all sounded.

I liked every one of them - there wasn't one that stood out as sounding bad or mediocre.

The Fralin seemed the most polite and pleasant to listen to.

But I also especially liked the Gibson, the Lollar and the Throback.

Shoot - I even liked the Dimarzio!

But they all sounded so similar that I can see how Duncan pickups might have felt there was no great benefit to participating in this particular shoot out.

None stood out as being head and shoulders above the rest and the Duncans might have blended in as well, with only very subtle differences distinguishing them from the rest.

Or not. Guess we'll never know.

To me, what this comparison made very clear is the consistent quality and similarity of tone of all of the contestants.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

I'm still appalled at how much the Seymour Duncan company has willfully given to us, when they weren't ever required to, yet some people on here treat the company with complete disrespect. It is okay to criticize the company, but it is not okay to disrespect the company. It is very possible to give constructive criticism without being disrespectful. Derek Duncan provided an explanation, and if you don't believe him, fine. But even using profanity towards him? I'm disappointed.

 

[DreX]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

I'm still appalled at how much the Seymour Duncan company has willfully given to us, when they weren't ever required to, yet some people on here treat the company with complete disrespect. It is okay to criticize the company, but it is not okay to disrespect the company. It is very possible to give constructive criticism without being disrespectful. Derek Duncan provided an explanation, and if you don't believe him, fine. But even using profanity towards him? I'm disappointed.

By "some people", do we mean ItsaBass specifically?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

I'm still appalled at how much the Seymour Duncan company has willfully given to us, when they weren't ever required to, yet some people on here treat the company with complete disrespect. It is okay to criticize the company, but it is not okay to disrespect the company. It is very possible to give constructive criticism without being disrespectful. Derek Duncan provided an explanation, and if you don't believe him, fine. But even using profanity towards him? I'm disappointed.

I like the way Seymour voices pickups - especially Strat, Tele and paf style humbucking pickups.

And I like the way I've been treated by Seymour, Mj, Evan and the Duncan Company.

They seem like good people and that, and tone, is what has created a certain brand loyalty as far as I'm concerned.

And that's the biggest reason I use Duncans in most of my guitars, and will continue to.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

I'm still appalled at how much the Seymour Duncan company has willfully given to us, when they weren't ever required to, yet some people on here treat the company with complete disrespect. It is okay to criticize the company, but it is not okay to disrespect the company. It is very possible to give constructive criticism without being disrespectful. Derek Duncan provided an explanation, and if you don't believe him, fine. But even using profanity towards him? I'm disappointed.

+1. Kind of harsh. A few posts went beyond 'user feedback' and were unnecessarily disrespectful. Criticism towards our host should be constructive, & not emotional and insulting. Would any of you talk down to Seymour like that, face-to-face?

 

[freefrog]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

They seem like good people

+1. Since PAF replicas are evoked here, what Seymour did for Seth with the SH55 has to be reminded and saluted.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

Let's unpack this monster of a thread.
First: Discourse.
This is a company sponsored forum, which means you're in someone else's house. However, this rule has stuck with me from before I even thought about working for SD:

Remember, one of the rules on this forum is that you can bash Seymour Duncan. You can even call our pickups "mass produced" and "compressed and thin." What you can't do is bash the competition.

It is what gave this forum a sense of authenticity and legitimacy. It was "taking the high road" so to speak. You can't have it both ways. You can't call for honest feedback and then get butt hurt when it arrives. If the company didn't like it they would change their policy. Many other company forums nuke all critical threads and users. Not so with Duncan, to their credit. It's the Duncan fans that don't like seeing it on the "house" forum, and that's fine. You can defend SD in the threads, just know that as a matter of policy, SD is not asking you to prevent people from giving honest feedback.

I may not have liked it at times, to read complaints about an engineering faux pas or how Throbak or any other of the million PAF newcomers somehow had more street cred than Seymour, because they found the secret alloy in a rusted out piece of shrapnel under the refrigerator of a guy who used to clean up at the Gibson factory. But you'd better believe I'd MUCH rather have heard it here, than somewhere else. It meant people still cared. When they stop telling you and just vote with their wallet, your journey toward irrelevance has begun. I liked having the opportunity to respond and quickly dispel something if it weren't true.

Many of us use polite discourse when we're in someone else's house. It's the difference between "Blackouts suck because they're too loud and clip the input of my POD" or "Blackouts were too loud for my rig, and had to lower them to the point I felt the sound suffered. I found the Black Winters worked better for me." But the truth is, how you say something is just a social skill. It's not bending or breaking any forum rules. In fact, I got just as much usable information from "sucks" posts as I did the overly verbose and diplomatic ones. Sometimes hearing it "straight" is more effective.

Second: The Decision.
It's a two sentence answer:

When it came down to selecting only one PAF model for the roundup, we couldn’t come to a consensus and we didn’t feel we had anything as far as a “new and exciting” version to showcase. With a dozen or so PAF era models in our lineup, it can be difficult to find “the one."

You asked, they answered. You have to take it at face value. It's not someone speculating why, it is the company's official reason why. You may not agree, but if they're saying that was their logic, then that's the end of it. That's the logic they're communicating. Someone is going to say "I agree, they have nothing to prove" and someone will say "I disagree, they do have new and exciting things" or "I disagree, just pick one like all the other brands did", and that'll be the end of it. In 30 days probably no one will care.

It's my advice to conduct yourselves on forums with an elevated level of discourse, but we're (mostly) adults, so you're gonna do what you want.

 

[Jeffrec]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

Let's unpack this monster of a thread.
First: Discourse.
This is a company sponsored forum, which means you're in someone else's house. However, this rule has stuck with me from before I even thought about working for SD:
It is what gave this forum a sense of authenticity and legitimacy. It was "taking the high road" so to speak. You can't have it both ways. You can't call for honest feedback and then get butt hurt when it arrives. If the company didn't like it they would change their policy. Many other company forums nuke all critical threads and users. Not so with Duncan, to their credit. It's the Duncan fans that don't like seeing it on the "house" forum, and that's fine. You can defend SD in the threads, just know that as a matter of policy, SD is not asking you to prevent people from giving honest feedback.

I may not have liked it at times, to read complaints about an engineering faux pas or how Throbak or any other of the million PAF newcomers somehow had more street cred than Seymour, because they found the secret alloy in a rusted out piece of shrapnel under the refrigerator of a guy who used to clean up at the Gibson factory. But you'd better believe I'd MUCH rather have heard it here, than somewhere else. It meant people still cared. When they stop telling you and just vote with their wallet, your journey toward irrelevance has begun. I liked having the opportunity to respond and quickly dispel something if it weren't true.

Many of us use polite discourse when we're in someone else's house. It's the difference between "Blackouts suck because they're too loud and clip the input of my POD" or "Blackouts were too loud for my rig, and had to lower them to the point I felt the sound suffered. I found the Black Winters worked better for me." But the truth is, how you say something is just a social skill. It's not bending or breaking any forum rules. In fact, I got just as much usable information from "sucks" posts as I did the overly verbose and diplomatic ones. Sometimes hearing it "straight" is more effective.

Second: The Decision.
It's a two sentence answer:
You asked, they answered. You have to take it at face value. It's not someone speculating why, it is the company's official reason why. You may not agree, but if they're saying that was their logic, then that's the end of it. That's the logic they're communicating. Someone is going to say "I agree, they have nothing to prove" and someone will say "I disagree, they do have new and exciting things" or "I disagree, just pick one like all the other brands did", and that'll be the end of it. In 30 days probably no one will care.

It's my advice to conduct yourselves on forums with an elevated level of discourse, but we're (mostly) adults, so you're gonna do what you want.

Well said

 

[Jeffrec]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

Great way of comparing them.

What I was struck by was how extremely similar they all sounded.

I liked every one of them - there wasn't one that stood out as sounding bad or mediocre.

The Fralin seemed the most polite and pleasant to listen to.

But I also especially liked the Gibson, the Lollar and the Throback.

Shoot - I even liked the Dimarzio!

But they all sounded so similar that I can see how Duncan pickups might have felt there was no great benefit to participating in this particular shoot out.

None stood out as being head and shoulders above the rest and the Duncans might have blended in as well, with only very subtle differences distinguishing them from the rest.

Or not. Guess we'll never know.

To me, what this comparison made very clear is the consistent quality and similarity of tone of all of the contestants.

Nice Lew.

I agree, they all sounded good. To my ears, the Throbak bridge (clean) had a lot of character,

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

By "some people", do we mean ItsaBass specifically?

I won't approve of naming users and pointing fingers. A lot of users were disrespectful; don't single out a user just because you may have had a disagreement with them at some point.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

Nice Lew.

I agree, they all sounded good. To my ears, the Throbak bridge (clean) had a lot of character,

I thought so too. A nice thickness to the midrange but textured and not overly wooly.

 

[DreX]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

I won't approve of naming users and pointing fingers. A lot of users were disrespectful; don't single out a user just because you may have had a disagreement with them at some point.

I don't see all these disrespectful people, plural, that are being referred to.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

A tall tale like that deserves a direct and dickish response. In other words, sure, I'm being a dick, but it's warranted...and it is absolutely no different than what I would say in person.

I'm sure that those at Duncan did not get together and decide that they would opt out of the article for the reasons stated by Derek Duncan. Reasons why that makes no sense whatsoever have been stated by others above. More than likely, someone at Duncan just dropped the ball, or they decided not to participate for some other reason. It's okay to just say those things; people would be fine with an honest answer. What they aren't fine with is smoke being blown up their asses.

 

[DreX]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

Don't be this guy

 

[El Supremo]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

Don't be this guy

Lol. It remains intrigueing to me though. Particularly as the given reasons can be interpreted easily in a negative way.

If you can't find the "one" whilst other companies apparantly can, what does that say?
If you say "we don't have anything new and exciting" and you have several new models, what does that say?

Probably making too much of it, bit I do think the decision is a missed chance though. If not for Duncan then certainly for us, the consumers to see a well set up pro comparison between some of the leading names in pickup design including Duncan.

 

[CTN]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

A tall tale like that deserves a direct and dickish response. In other words, sure, I'm being a dick, but it's warranted...and it is absolutely no different than what I would say in person.

I'm sure that those at Duncan did not get together and decide that they would opt out of the article for the reasons stated by Derek Duncan. Reasons why that makes no sense whatsoever have been stated by others above. More than likely, someone at Duncan just dropped the ball, or they decided not to participate for some other reason. It's okay to just say those things; people would be fine with an honest answer. What they aren't fine with is smoke being blown up their asses.

If you don't like Derek's answer, maybe you can form an joint exploratory committee with lukeduke and TGWIF and go conduct an investigation into whether or not Derek is lying to you. Maybe you could start by examining the contents of your rectal cavity and asking whatever foul creature crawled up there if it knows the answers to all your thought-consuming questions. Maybe you could ask it to lick your wounded ego as well.

By your own admission, you ARE being a dick. And it's totally unwarranted. Considering you have absolutely zero knowledge of what actually went down at the company, your assertion that Derek is flat out lying is not only woefully misinformed, but also childish. And on top of that, instead of being polite and civil about your feelings about the matter, you chose to be a rude, disrespectful, loudmouth.

If you don't like the way your host behaves in his own house maybe you should just politely grab your things and GET OUT.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

Don't be this guy

Blueman?

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

Frank made some good points. He referenced the rules to justify the ongoing discourse.

Yet there is one rule that has stood ABOVE all others for longer than I've been a member here:

BE RESPECTFUL

That one has been ignored by several people in this thread. If I was a moderator, you would be INFRACTED!

Luke: I disagree with your argument for why the boutique pickup builders exist. They are here because there was something they thought they could do better or in a unique way. It's not a failure on the part of the big guys. Seymour has never claimed to want the entire market for himself.

The best sounding pickups I've ever bought are Zhangbuckers. The pickups that see the most action are Duncans.

I like both, for different reasons.

 

[Securb]

Re: Question for Duncan the company

Do any of you armchair CEOs even work in marketing? A company has limited resources and focuses for their marketing campaigns. Most companies and I would imagine SD does also, have a marketing calendar or schedule. This is to put the maximum effort behind your latest efforts or announcements. Just because some publication decides they want to include one of your 2-4 year old products in a pickup shootout doesn't mean you drop everything and change directions with your marketing plan. Actually deviating from your calendar or schedule is the worse thing you could do, it screws up budgets and workflows. I am sure SD like every other company is being pitched partnerships and marketing opportunities all day. If a company jumped at every opportunity laid at their feet they would be scattered and unfocused and ultimately die. I think Derek is a stand up guy for coming into the forums and explaining why they decided to pass on this opportunity. Some you guys act like he should clear every decision about HIS FAMILY'S BUSINESS with you clowns on the forum. Maybe you would like to put in your 2 cents about salaries, benefits and what Seymour gets to eat for breakfast. If you are that skilled in marketing send Derek a resume, until then shutup.