QUESTIONS RE PRS PICKUPS

[Gstring]

First Question. Why are second hand PRS pick ups so expensive when so many people seem to swap them out for S D s?

I am going to help someone upgrade an Agile PRS copy and he seems to want to spend slightly more than the cost of a new set of Pearly Gates on a second hand set of PRS Dragons. I would not have done this

To try and capture some of the tones of the PRS rotary switch we are planning to have 2 push pulls. One giving combined OOP/Series and the other coil cut on both pups.
Second question. I would normally cut bridge screw and neck slug to get a virtual 3rd humbucker in parallel but recollect reading that the bridge magnet is flipped on PRS pups and its best to cut the inner coils ..possibly through resistors to ground to get the so called partial coil cut. Am I correct?

Thought I would post a pic. Nice guitar in very good condition for £300 plus shipping from Spain. . Seems to have a real Floyd Rose. I actually recommended a set of Tesla Sharks.. excellent budget copies of the Slash pup but guy is very keen PRS fan.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: QUESTIONS RE PRS PICKUPS

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First Question. Why are second hand PRS pick ups so expensive when so many people seem to swap them out for S D s?

I am going to help someone upgrade an Agile PRS copy and he seems to want to spend slightly more than the cost of a new set of Pearly Gates on a second hand set of PRS Dragons. I would not have done this

To try and capture some of the tones of the PRS rotary switch we are planning to have 2 push pulls. One giving combined OOP/Series and the other coil cut on both pups.

They're expensive because the Dragons are no longer made and that set is highly revered by some PRS players who want a very strong bridge pickup that sounds great with overdrive. Also because the neck pickup uses an alnico 4 magnet and that's kind of a rarity...even though alnico 4 was actually the magnet Gibson most often used in the 1959 PAF's.

That original Dragon set is also said to be Paul Reed Smith's favorite set of PRS pickups. Or was at one time.

My '95 Custom 22 came with Dragons. The 8K neck is an alnico 4. The 19K bridge is ceramic. According to guys on the PRS Forum.

I liked the neck pickup but the bridge pickup was to thick and dense sounding for the bluesy tones I prefer.

I removed them, removed the 5 way rotary switch, installed a 3 way toggle and installed a set of alnico 4 Tom Holmes humbuckers I bought for a Les Paul many years ago. They were too bright and lacking in midrange.

So I found some used Dragon II's and put those in. Much, much better. But the magnet in the bridge pickup was reversed to work with the PRS 5 way rotary switch so I had to remove the nickel cover and reverse it so it would work with a Gibson style 3 way toggle.

The neck was the same pickup as the Dragon only with a nickel cover and an alnico 5 magnet. The bridge was 12K, alnico 5 magnet and with a nickel cover.

I kept them in for a year or so but the tone was still too dense and not vintage enough.

I tried some nickel covered Pearly Gates in it and "BAM!"....there was the tone I'd been looking for.

I really like the PG's. I also really like the Custom Shop PG's which are wound a bit hotter. I now have those in my Custom 22.

So now I have four PRS guitars. Two Custom 22's with CS PG's, one SE Singlecut with regular Pearly Gates, and one SE Singlecut with Slash APH-2's.

Overall, I like the PG's and CS PG's best. I'm a blues player and prefer '59 style PAF's with alnico 2 magnets...like the PG's.

Unless you're using a 5 position PRS rotary switch, you will need to reverse the magnet in the bridge pickup if you go for a set of used Dragon or Dragon II's.

If you go with PG's and a Gibson style 3 way switch, you won't have to do any alterations to the magnet...but you will if you choose to use the PRS 5 position rotary switch.

Personally, if your friend is going to insist on coil splitting, I'd suggest also using the 5 position PRS switch. Much cleaner.

A used set of unaltered Dragons or Dragon II's will come with the bridge pickup already out of phase magnetically with the neck pickup. Which is what you want if you use a 5 position PRS rotary switch. But if you go with a 3 way you'll have to reverse the magnet in one of the pickups...usually the bridge pickup.

Personally, I find splitting humbuckers to get single coils tones a useless effort because to me they just don't sound very good split.

When I want a single coil sound I'll play my Strat and get the real deal...not some thin, weak and puny sounding compromise.

 

[Gstring]

Re: QUESTIONS RE PRS PICKUPS

Many thanks for that response.Was not aware that the Dragons were "collectable". Agree PG s (or possibly Slash type) would be good but not my decision. Did not know that PRS pups come OOP as standard . Thanks for that. Presumably an OOP switch will therefore put them back in phase

Swapping magnets or reversing them is not one of my limited party tricks so there is no way I am experimenting with someone elses expensive and rare pup. Will check out whether local guitar shop can do this but am not sure if I trust them.

I quite like coil splitting .especially when you get the virtual 3rd humbucker in parallel. Plus I find bridge humbucker plus split neck,especially with independent vols very useable. Also like parallel wired bridge pups alone and in the mix.. Whilst I agree individually split hums are no substitute for the glassy bell tones of a Strat ( i do have one) they do have there uses.


Not sure about rotary switches. Did some experiments a while back and found them sometimes stiff to turn and not that user friendly plus push pulls seem to give you more. A genuine PRS rotary would probably be fine but am not sure if you can buy them here in UK. AlsoWill speak to owner about possibility and feasibility of fitting 5 way slider which I understand is PRS's current selector of choice.

I understand PRS use push pulls on their SE, S2 AND and CE models so presumably you can split PRS pups without swapping the magnet. Need to check out some PRS wiring diagrams for inspiration.. Any pointers from anybody would be useful.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: QUESTIONS RE PRS PICKUPS

Only the older PRS pickups designed to use with the PRS 5 way rotary switch are magnetically out of phase.

If you want to use them with a 3 way toggle, Les Paul style switch, you do have to reverse the magnet in one.

I reverse it in the bridge model.

 

[MakerDP]

Re: QUESTIONS RE PRS PICKUPS

PRS sells a lot of guitars and they have an "upscale" reputation. That drives the price up. I do feel their "upscale" reputation is totally deserved. Sixteen years ago I went in to my favorite music with the goal of leaving with a $3500 Les Paul and I walked out with a $2100 PRS Singlecut instead. In my mind it looked better, played better and sounded just as good for $1500 less. And yes, I was comparing it to the $3500 Les Pauls.

I think the vast majority of PRS players are just fine with their pickups. For the most part, people who post in forums about pickup swaps are the kind of people who would be more likely to swap pickups in no matter what guitar they own. That combined with how many guitars they sell makes it seem like tons of people are dis-satisfied with their PUPs and we tend to maybe notice it more because of the PRS reputation. The people willing to pay the higher prices for replacements are probably the ones who swapped their original ones out and now they wish they hadn't sold or traded them.

 

[Jeff5]

Re: QUESTIONS RE PRS PICKUPS

There have been many iterations of PRS pick ups over the years. I'm not sure why the new ones cost so much, but they are pricey for sure. (57/08, 59/09, etc.) They are really good, especially the 57/08. I love the Tremonti treble as a high output bridge too. The Tremonti, and the older pick ups, if they are in production, are not too badly priced.

As for why swap them, well, many of us are tone chasers. Sometimes it's curiosity, sometimes personal preference or just the style of music you play. There are just lots of reasons. I took the 57/08 out of my PRS not because they weren't good pick ups, they are fantastic PAF pups, but because I need and prefer higher output pick ups for the style of music I play.

 

[Jeff5]

Re: QUESTIONS RE PRS PICKUPS

The newer pickups are designed to be out of phase and work with the 5 way blade too. You don't have the flip the magnet. To combine a PRS pick up with another brand and not have them be out of phase when used together, all you have to do is swap the ground and hot. (Either on the PRS pup or the non PRS pup, it doesn't matter) It's very easy, I've done it many times.

 

[Gstring]

Re: QUESTIONS RE PRS PICKUPS

Many thanks Jeff 5. That clarifies a lot. I think I was looking for problems that were not really there.

This sounds exactly like the problem you have with Duncan Designed pups which I am familiar with

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: QUESTIONS RE PRS PICKUPS

Yes, you can just reverse the wires rather than reverse the magnet in one pickup.

That's what the 5 way rotary switch does in the #3 position with both humbuckers combined.

But I had Dragon II's in my two Custom 22's and one had the 5 way rotary and the two pickups magnetically out of phase and one had the 3 way switch with the two pickup magnetically in phase.

I always thought the CU-22 with the 3 way switch and the two pickups magnetically in phase sounded (or felt) a little livelier.

I don't use a RW/RP middle pickup in my Strat for the same reason.

Just seems that if the pickups are magnetically in phase, that the strings don't get confused!

Seriously. I think it might be one reason that vintage Strats and Teles from the 50's and 60's seem to resonate a little differently than newer models with one pickup RW/RP.

 

[dotsdad]

Re: QUESTIONS RE PRS PICKUPS

If you like the original Dragon pickups, call Lindy Fralin. Thats where Paul got em before he could afford his own winding machines ;^)

 

[Gstring]

Re: QUESTIONS RE PRS PICKUPS

Appreciate your response. Thanks for that info. I have looked, out of interest , at the LF webpage and it was not clear to me what the Dragon equivalent was.

I have never had dealings with Lindy Fralin pickups and know nobody who has. Suspect they a bit too pricey here in the UK for my circle of guitar playing friends and acquaintances. Also suspect they cost a bit more than a second hand set of PRS Dragons.

Having heard the Dragons, am not sure whether I am a fan or not. I certainly do not dislike them but do not think they are the best bang for you buck compared to less expensive pups like some Duncan sets and even some budget pups like Iron Gear. However,I know they do have a considerable following so obviously my opinion is only useful to me.

 

[MakerDP]

Re: QUESTIONS RE PRS PICKUPS

Never been a fan of the Dragons myself so I never even considered a Custom after playing one only for the first time. It's all subjective.... to each his own. If someone wants that sound, they better be willing to pay for it I guess.

I mean some people spend crazy $$$ on that special amp or botique pedal that just speaks to them. An extra $100 on a set of pickups is nothing compared to that and if it helps them nail their tone (and they can still feed their children) it's all worth it.