Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

[KLINKDETROIT]

I like the rectifier setting on my amp but it seems to make the tubes run cold as it was biased for silicone diode setting. I am not sure if it was rebiased for rectifier if it would sound as loud or in your face. Is there a rectifier tube that is in between the sound of ( rectifier/silicone diode) for my Dual rectifier amp?
I want to get the sweetness and realness of the rectifier sound but the in your face and hottness of the tube burn as the silicone diode. Anyone know?

 

[Lee Bob]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

Supposedly the JJ GZ34 rectifier tube is the best tube for that compromise between SS and tube rectification. I upgraded my stock Mesa recto tubes to the JJ's and now run it in tube rectification at all times. Allows for for the beautiful cleans and punchy crunch tones.

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

I heard that Mesa says not to use the gz34 type? Any other types or manufacturers of the gz34?

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

Maybe it's time to find a Mesa tech that can add a bias pot. It may cost you the price of a pickup, but your amp will sound a lot tighter if you can set the bias perfectly. The best sounding Dual Recs I've heard had that mod, along with Svetlana tubes and GT12AX7C's.

Edit...I just saw your other post about your tubes....it looks like you've got that under control. Maybe just find a tech that knows Rectifiers well, and see what he can do to improve the fidelity....and add a bias pot.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

Maybe it's time to find a Mesa tech that can add a bias pot. It may cost you the price of a pickup, but your amp will sound a lot tighter if you can set the bias perfectly. The best sounding Dual Recs I've heard had that mod, along with Svetlana tubes and GT12AX7C's.

Edit...I just saw your other post about your tubes....it looks like you've got that under control. Maybe just find a tech that knows Rectifiers well, and see what he can do to improve the fidelity....and add a bias pot.

I had installed dual internal pots in my Tremoverb years ago..I had a pot for each of the set of tubes(EL34s or 6L6)....On mine,I'd just move the switch to either EL34s or the 6L6s and pop in the tubes..Both pots were already setup and biased for whatever tube brand I'd set the bias for...Not having a adjustable bias is still stupid to me,especially if you're a guy like me that owns several different styles of tubes.... :smack:

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

I have an adjustable bias on the amp from Voodoo amps. It was biased for use with the silicone diode on. I like the rectifier tube better now but it is not as in your face. A compromise between the 2 would be perfect as I like the natural quality of the rectifier tube versus the sterility of the diode. KInda like the ceramic magnet compared to an alnico 5.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

I always wished there was some sort of hybrid rectifier, so you could pan between the SS and Tube, but I don't think there is. On Bassmans, there's that SS module you can replace the tube with, but I don't think you can do that on a Mesa (with those giant rectifier tubes). Maybe you should talk to someone at antique electronic supply, since they stock more rectifier tubes than anyone.

Maybe a Duncan pickup booster, set subtle, but always ON in your chain would give you the desired effect. We're probably splitting too many hairs at this point. You're probably really better off not obsessing over it, and just sink into the tone of your amp the way it is. I come to that point too.....where I just say F it, it's good enough!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

On my Tremoverb I had messed with biasing my amp for either SS or the GZ34 rectifier....Mesa didn't want us to use certain settings on the Tremoverb because it would send the plate voltages way up...I remember you had to use the tube rectifier setting only if you were setup for EL34s...This was around 94 when Mesa only offered the "Chinese Bottle Rocket" EL34s....Mesa used to recommend having spares if you elected to use their EL34s...That was pretty piss poor at the time... :laugh2:

I found very little sag or difference in feel in my Tremoverb between the ss and GZ34(5AR4)rectifier tube...

I set my bias so one pot was set for plate voltage with the SS rectifier setting and the other pot was set for the 5ar4.....I think I was able to just switch back and forth while listening....There's a considerable difference between the 5u4S AND ss though..

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

So you dont find the gz34 to have any sag?

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

So you dont find the gz34 to have any sag?

It depends on what circuit it's in...I do like the way the 5AR4 tube reacts or acts in my BF amps...In the Mesa Tremoverb I didn't hear a big difference though...

I had pulled both 5U4s and used just one 5AR4 when trying it...I sold that amp in 2001...

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

I heard you have to have 2 rectifier tubes in if your running 4 power tubes. Would that have made a difference? I will try them out to see. The tone search is 95% over (and always will be) LOL

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

I heard you have to have 2 rectifier tubes in if your running 4 power tubes. Would that have made a difference? I will try them out to see. The tone search is 95% over (and always will be) LOL

....In the Rectifier series you can run 1 5AR4 with 4 output tubes....Mesa guys told me I could...I guess I'd get on the phone and ask on that one?

Come to think of it though....Maybe you're right? I remember trying a set of Mullard GZ37s together in my Tremoverb,so maybe you do still need the "dual" rectifiers?

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

what does sag sound like?

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

what does sag sound like?

It's more of a feel thing mostly in that you hit a note hard,the note softens a bit and then blossoms back up again....Sag also effects how tight OR loose the amp feels in the lows....The more sag,the less defined and tight the lows,but it's not just the lows,but the whole feel of the amp also...

A Plexi 100 watt Marshall is tight
A Fender 59 Bassman amp cranked up has sag...

 

[sooperunkn]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

I always wondered about why Tube Rectifier amps are knocked on so often? You always see people paying HUGE money for vintage amps and yet aren't they ALL equipped with tube rectifiers?

I too love the tone (and smell) of vintage amps but I just couldn't afford them and if I could they usually were fairly limited: single channel, no FX loop, maintenance worries, etc. So when I started looking to purchase my first tube amp I specifically looked for a tube rectifier because at the time I felt that was the major contributor to the vintage tone I loved. But I also loved the in your face tone of lets say... a diode rectifier Soldano!! Given that and my want/need for versatility and high-gain I chose the 3 channel Dual Rectifier... and the deciding factor was when I realized that amp had the ability to switch between Diode or Tube Rectifier. As far as I know there aren't many amps that have the ability. Of course, Mr. Randall had to compromise other areas to allow this flexibility and I believe that's the main reason they're not sold biasable... but I could be wrong?

I am a fan of Squish!! Let the record state that I only switched over to the Diode Rectifier once just to hear the differences and I really liked the tone but I love the Sag more... what can I say! It's nice to know that the Diode is there when I need it... especially if I blow a rectifier tube!!!!

-Jay

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

I think for recording the rectifier is better but maybe live the silicone is more in your face and immediate? I still would like a compromise as the volume actually drops quite a bit with the rectifier tubes. I will try the gz34 and see whats up.

 

[Monty-Jay]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

I bought a Tremoverb off ebay last summer for $650...The seller said it sounded fine and I knew I was taking my chances, so I wasn't too surprised when it started to smoke a little and I didn't get sound from the tube rectifier/bold setting.

It's now at a Mesa tech and he said the problem was the adjustable bias trimpot that the previous owner had installed. I like the idea of adjustable bias, but I gotta say when it comes to Mesas, this have left a bad taste Maybe it would work better with a newer Recto.

MJ

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

What tubes were you using? Maybe it wasnt biased for those tubes. I know if you use the bold or diode it will up the current. Tha is why the teck biased mine for bold/diode so I could safeley toggle between the 2. now I think I like the rectifier/bold and am looking for a little more middle of the road between rectifier/diode.

 

[Spark]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

...the rectifier is better but maybe live the silicone is more in your face and immediate...

dude, they are both recitfiers - a tube based rectifier and a solid state rectifier. thats why it is called a Dual Rectifier, cause you have the option to choose between the two types. either way the rectifier is taking the AC line current and converting it to DC voltages, whether it is tube or solid state.

when I tried the jj gz34's in my Tremoverb it fried two preamp tubes 1 set into a show. I dont know if it was because they run at a different voltage than the the 5U4-Gs that Mesa puts in there, but I havent had another problem since I put the Mesa 5U4-Gs back in, so be careful.

 

[sosomething]

Re: Rectifier tube that sounds between rectifier/ silicone diode for Mesa

dude, they are both recitfiers - a tube based rectifier and a solid state rectifier. thats why it is called a Dual Rectifier, cause you have the option to choose between the two types. either way the rectifier is taking the AC line current and converting it to DC voltages, whether it is tube or solid state.

when I tried the jj gz34's in my Tremoverb it fried two preamp tubes 1 set into a show. I dont know if it was because they run at a different voltage than the the 5U4-Gs that Mesa puts in there, but I havent had another problem since I put the Mesa 5U4-Gs back in, so be careful.

Actually (splitting hairs now) the "Dual" in Dual Rectifier comes from the number of rectifier tubes. They're not counting the silicon diode. That's why the 100-watt Dual Rec runs on two 5U4-Gs, the 50-watt Single Rec runs on one, and the 150-watt Triple rec runs on three.