Red Knob Fender Champ 12

JeffB

JeffB

Let it B
My brother has one he is no longer interested in keeping. It's in fantastic shape, all original (even the tubes I'd wager). It's possible he may sell it to me for a an extremely good price (a friend of his has it right now contemplating buying it as well)

I have not played it since, oh..1989 or so. At the time I really liked it- but that was a LONG time ago.

Anyone fam with the amp in more recent years? How does it take dirt boxes?
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

I remember all those red knob Fender amps being really fizzy sounding...maybe as a clean platform with boxes they'd do alright but if thats the case I might rather have a Pro jr or some other small amp of today...
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

Thanks folks

I did a little research and I know Torres has some mods for them to make them more "vintagey". My brother had looked into them as well, but has not gotten around to modding it. It's my understanding that the (re)Tube kit they sell as well as a new speaker works wonders (even without their internal mods and new pots.)

I'll have to see exactly what he's willing to let it go for-I'm thinking around $150-in that case with the mods (+ $150) it will probably be worth it. I'd def prefer the 2 channels, and especially the 12" speaker vs. a Pro Jr or such.
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

ya i knew a guy that recorded an album that never got released with one of those... he had it in a sound booth in his privite studio in his home... when he was done recording he got pissed at the end results and the tapes were wiped...

but it was not a great amp but he made it work with his 80's era strat... he just used it for mostly cleanish and slight OD sounds for recording
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

I don't think they take pedals all that well. A tendancy to mud out. I liked em with just the clean Ch cranked though.
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

hmmm...me thinks I may need to vist home and give her a play before I say yay or nay :D
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

Howdy,

I love the clean tones from my red knob Super 112 (60 watts) and "The Twin". That Champ 12 is lower output and I've never played one. I wouldn't be surprised if it had good clean tones.
As for the cursed gain channel? I never use it! I say that Champ 12 is worth a look.
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

I own a Champ 12 Great Lil' amp ! AVOID THE TORRES MODS ! Just keep the gain below 3 and it sounds fine. Need more gain? It takes pedals well. The only major issue w/t this amp, And the entire red series is the plastic input jacks. I've hardwired a switchcraft into mine, No more problems! Get a good NOS 6L6GC in there, And it sounds even better. Need more info? PM me.
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

Thanks for the extra input folks! I'm gonna hold off until October when I go home to VA to see my family, and I can bring my Tele to try through it. If it's sold by then to his bandmate, oh well, not a big deal.
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

I have a 1x12 60 watt red knob similar to eggman's. Nice clean, and I have found the OD to be useful to a certain extent. Better to use a decent OD/dist. pedal, though. IMHO, it takes an OD pedal well. I would say the same about my bro in law's red knob Twin.

Of course, the much lower power model that you're looking at may be different. It certainly is worth checking at $150, but not a big deal if the other guy buys it.
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

The Red Knob Champ is quite a bit different from the typical two or four 6L6 Class A/B Fender amp. This Champ uses a single 6L6 in true class A and is not high headroom, tight and bright, in the tradition of say the Twin.
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

Hey guys... new poster here...

I bought one of these in craig's a couple of weeks back for $100 bucks... it had a busted Input 1, no Input 2 and the third prong on the power supply cord had been knocked off.

So I replaced both inputs with some I had left over from when I repaired a Red knob Twin a couple of years back, I cut off the power cord and installed an IEC jack and while I was at it, cut off the footswitch and installed a jack for that in the back...

Mine came with an EL34 for some reason (it sounds and works fine) and stock Fender 12AX7.

Single ended 6L6 output amp (similar to the valve jr. but with a little more complicated circuit). I like the clean channel... a little gritty, not completely clean, not much headroom but not necessarily a bad thing. Great for cleanish, mildly overdriven blues.

OD channel is a little harsh for my taste. I do use it but with the gain way down. The difference in volume from one channel to the other is also apparent. I have to turn the volume on the OD channel way down if I want to switch from one to the other.

Reverb is OK i guess... don't use it much.

Overall it keeps up with the drummer in my rehearsals and is light to carry around than my modded V33 with 1x12".

I downloaded the schem and have been trying to figure out the circuit to see how to simplify it and tame the OD channel some... I just can't figure out the LDR switching scheme. Also, I'd like to maybe use the second half of the second 12AX7 for something other than buffering the line ins (which I want to remove and use as bias test points).

I dunno... a lot can be done besides the torres mods (which I haven't tried) I guess... I'd just like to figue some mods on my own... any opinions?

Thanks!
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

IIRC, the Champ 12's gain was unusable. It's reverb tank consisted of a spring inside a carton box. Did ok with pedals though. Ok for home use, but I much preferred the tone and gain from the Pro Jr. and Blues Jr. I've had all three amps, but today prefer to use a Classic 30 as it doubles as a practice and gigging amp.

I also preferred a Champ 25SE for its cleans over the Champ 12. ymmv of course.
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

RomanMtz said:
......
Single ended 6L6 output amp (similar to the valve jr. but with a little more complicated circuit). I like the clean channel... a little gritty, not completely clean, not much headroom but not necessarily a bad thing. Great for cleanish, mildly overdriven blues.

OD channel is a little harsh for my taste. I do use it but with the gain way down. The difference in volume from one channel to the other is also apparent. I have to turn the volume on the OD channel way down if I want to switch from one to the other.

Reverb is OK i guess... don't use it much.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much how I remember these too.

An EL34? That's interesting.
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

RomanMtz said:
I downloaded the schem and have been trying to figure out the circuit to see how to simplify it and tame the OD channel some... I just can't figure out the LDR switching scheme. Also, I'd like to maybe use the second half of the second 12AX7 for something other than buffering the line ins (which I want to remove and use as bias test points).

I dunno... a lot can be done besides the torres mods (which I haven't tried) I guess... I'd just like to figue some mods on my own... any opinions?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I've had 3 of these amps. 1st one on loan from a friend, Loved it! Bought my own. Modded it (thanks Mr. torres:eyecrazy:) Tried to un mod it! Young & Stupid Grew disenchanted w/t it, Sold it. Recently got my grubby hands on a 3rd (unmodded) And I'm holding onto this one ! Only thing I've done to this one is hard wire a switchcraft input jack to it. Maybe when I've got the $$ it will see a New speaker & some N.O.S. Glass, AND THAT'S IT ! I did the torres mod to #2 about 20 years ago. All I remember it was a Lil' network of bypass caps & resistors that tied V1b to V2a. This DID help tame the nasty gain channel , But it also seemed to pad down some of the clean channels chime? A better non-evasive way to tame the O.D channel would be to try a lower gain tube in V2 . The knob mods ,He has you take out the 1meg gain & O.D.volume pots for 500k ! Now in theory Isn't this the same as turning the pots to 1/2 way? The knobs where less touchy, But I noticed a volume drop overall in the amp? The verb in these amps is weird by Fender's el cheapo design. You get a 2 spring internal cardboard tank without a dedicated driver? It splits off the OT,And is driven by the OT! But there is hope. If you look at the schematic you will see R 41 250k reverb trim pot . Just a Lil' tweak and the verb wakes up! But go easy! Go to far and it opens up a uncontrollable feedback loop.
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

Hey kmcguitars, why do you recommend to avoid the Torres mods? I looked into the Fender forums archives and several people recommend them... at leat the tone shaping mod (involves 2 resistos and 2 caps).

Thanks!
 
Re: Red Knob Fender Champ 12

RomanMtz said:
Hey kmcguitars, why do you recommend to avoid the Torres mods? I looked into the Fender forums archives and several people recommend them... at leat the tone shaping mod (involves 2 resistos and 2 caps).

Thanks!
Click to expand...
In General) Torres loves to tell you what your getting & how great! it will sound,But never mentions what your losing. If your a modder or tinker you already know when you change value of caps & resistors etc. There is always something gained & something lost. It's a game of give and take, Sometimes you lose more than you've gained? #2) He sells you the cheapest parts available. You pay $20 for a $1.20 worth of parts ( I guess the $18.80 is for his intellectual property?) The Champ 12 gain mod did do wonders to rid the amp of the 80's Buzz tones, But to my ears it seemed to load down or darken the clean channel? IMO the bread & butter of any Fender amp is the clean channel. Fender gain channels (until recently) was a just barley usable afterthought. People bend over backwards to make these O.D. channels into something. The flimsy PCB material Fender uses make for a horrible mod platform IMO! I spent most of my 20's w/t a soldering iron inside my fender SF Twin,Bassman ,Super 60 & Princeton trying to heat up the Normal channel.:banghead: Now in my 40's (And a bit wiser) It's much easier to just find the right dirt box & leave the amp alone. After 20 years of screwing w/t fender amps I've discovered the best mods are Good speakers & Good Tubes :D
 
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