SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
- Thread starter JohnnyGuitar
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uOpt
Something Cool
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
The point here is a tapped single coil that has thicker wire on the inside and thinner wire on the outside (to get both a thick coil tapped and enough resistance untapped).
The point here is a tapped single coil that has thicker wire on the inside and thinner wire on the outside (to get both a thick coil tapped and enough resistance untapped).
dr.barlo
New member
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
huh?
Why couldn't it be the same wire?
The resistance figures are meaningful as long as you compare the same type of wire. For example, the most one can wind onto a regular HB bobin is like 5.00-5.50K with #42. But with #43 one can wind like 8.00K or so as far as I know. Thus, one cannot have a 18.00K #42 pickup. Moreover, a 13.00K pickup is not necessarily hotter than an 8.00K pickup, if the first is wound with #44 and the second with #42.
So, resistance values don't mean nothing. Period.
P90's are like 7 - 8.00K with #42 wire. Strat pickups are like 6.00-6.50K again with #42. Thus, can you now tell me why thinner wire gotta be used to get more resistance.
If thinner wire is used, the pickup gets a little bit more trebly of course everything else kept fixed.
B
huh?
Why couldn't it be the same wire?
The resistance figures are meaningful as long as you compare the same type of wire. For example, the most one can wind onto a regular HB bobin is like 5.00-5.50K with #42. But with #43 one can wind like 8.00K or so as far as I know. Thus, one cannot have a 18.00K #42 pickup. Moreover, a 13.00K pickup is not necessarily hotter than an 8.00K pickup, if the first is wound with #44 and the second with #42.
So, resistance values don't mean nothing. Period.
P90's are like 7 - 8.00K with #42 wire. Strat pickups are like 6.00-6.50K again with #42. Thus, can you now tell me why thinner wire gotta be used to get more resistance.
If thinner wire is used, the pickup gets a little bit more trebly of course everything else kept fixed.
B
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KeeperOS
New member
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
If they can make it happen then there shouldn't be a need for a poll, except perhaps a check for how many will actually be interested in it.
If they'll reply that it'd be better if it were neck or bridge only, then we'll get a poll
So, who's telling Evan that we're gonna need the masters' opinion?
If they can make it happen then there shouldn't be a need for a poll, except perhaps a check for how many will actually be interested in it.
If they'll reply that it'd be better if it were neck or bridge only, then we'll get a poll
So, who's telling Evan that we're gonna need the masters' opinion?
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
Maybe this pickup (and perhaps others, maybe even most) could/should have a second coil tap close to the beginning of the winding so it would suit all positions depending which tap the installer used as the start? (Full winding for the bridge, slightly shorter winding for middle and neck). Just a thought..... in this case, it would then satisfy everyone who wants something like this for our beloved Strats but who have varying ideas about which position they want to install it in.
Maybe this pickup (and perhaps others, maybe even most) could/should have a second coil tap close to the beginning of the winding so it would suit all positions depending which tap the installer used as the start? (Full winding for the bridge, slightly shorter winding for middle and neck). Just a thought..... in this case, it would then satisfy everyone who wants something like this for our beloved Strats but who have varying ideas about which position they want to install it in.
Iron Horse
New member
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
Volume pot could be used for that. Of course that would be easy and permanent, but I think it's not worth it. The description Jeremy gave suits me fine.
Volume pot could be used for that. Of course that would be easy and permanent, but I think it's not worth it. The description Jeremy gave suits me fine.
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
Of course resistance doesn't mean anything.
But to get a good sound close to a vintage strat pickup you cannot use wire thinner than awg42. If you do the coil ends up too small and with too much resistance, or both.
So for the switchable pickup you need to start with a solid base of awg42.
Then, you want a switch to get a fatter non-tapped sound. But you can't just add layers and layers of awg42, because that way your coil gets too big and will sound fluffy. And you actually want to add some resistance now. So you add thinner wire.
How exactly the winds works out, space-wise, and whether the thinner wire sound be awg43 or 44 probably needs some experimentation. Most likely you cannot have a normal Strat pickup's worth of awg42 before the tap. But if just the majority of wire before the tap is awg42 that definitely better than just a tapped pure awg43 or awg44.
Then, there's the question of magnets. With just pole magnets you won't go close to Strat. I imagine that using pole magnets in combination with Invader-style small magnets on the bottom (not ceramic, of cousse) but be a good compromise.
huh?
Why couldn't it be the same wire?
The resistance figures are meaningful as long as you compare the same type of wire. For example, the most one can wind onto a regular HB bobin is like 5.00-5.50K with #42. But with #43 one can wind like 8.00K or so as far as I know. Thus, one cannot have a 18.00K #42 pickup. Moreover, a 13.00K pickup is not necessarily hotter than an 8.00K pickup, if the first is wound with #44 and the second with #42.
So, resistance values don't mean nothing. Period.
P90's are like 7 - 8.00K with #42 wire. Strat pickups are like 6.00-6.50K again with #42. Thus, can you now tell me why thinner wire gotta be used to get more resistance.
If thinner wire is used, the pickup gets a little bit more trebly of course everything else kept fixed.
B
Of course resistance doesn't mean anything.
But to get a good sound close to a vintage strat pickup you cannot use wire thinner than awg42. If you do the coil ends up too small and with too much resistance, or both.
So for the switchable pickup you need to start with a solid base of awg42.
Then, you want a switch to get a fatter non-tapped sound. But you can't just add layers and layers of awg42, because that way your coil gets too big and will sound fluffy. And you actually want to add some resistance now. So you add thinner wire.
How exactly the winds works out, space-wise, and whether the thinner wire sound be awg43 or 44 probably needs some experimentation. Most likely you cannot have a normal Strat pickup's worth of awg42 before the tap. But if just the majority of wire before the tap is awg42 that definitely better than just a tapped pure awg43 or awg44.
Then, there's the question of magnets. With just pole magnets you won't go close to Strat. I imagine that using pole magnets in combination with Invader-style small magnets on the bottom (not ceramic, of cousse) but be a good compromise.
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
a pup with that many taps may be a pita and i dont think it would be worth the extra cost to 90% of us
with reguard to what the doc was saying, id rather let them decide what works best. if it was me trying to do it with my limited experience id run it up to 6.5k with 42 formvar and fill the rest up with 43 pe using a slightly degaussed a5 flat pole mag maybe .690" tall and i wouldnt use a cover, id do it qp style to keep the coil as wide as possible.
we could try something like the fralin sp or dimarzio sds-1 but i believe that they both use ceramic mags. i dont think you can get alnico to be stable at that size
a pup with that many taps may be a pita and i dont think it would be worth the extra cost to 90% of us
with reguard to what the doc was saying, id rather let them decide what works best. if it was me trying to do it with my limited experience id run it up to 6.5k with 42 formvar and fill the rest up with 43 pe using a slightly degaussed a5 flat pole mag maybe .690" tall and i wouldnt use a cover, id do it qp style to keep the coil as wide as possible.
we could try something like the fralin sp or dimarzio sds-1 but i believe that they both use ceramic mags. i dont think you can get alnico to be stable at that size
dr.barlo
New member
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
Your suggestion sounds great man. Wide coil is an excellent idea.
But anyways, I am cool with MJ choosing the exact specs.
B
Your suggestion sounds great man. Wide coil is an excellent idea.
But anyways, I am cool with MJ choosing the exact specs.
B
dr.barlo
New member
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
Agreed.
I disagree. The Duncan surfer custom bridge measures 10.00K (thus, I guess its #44) and sounds GREAT! But I am with you on the good old 6.50K #42 formula.
Thus, I agree! The good old 6.50K strat pickup!
I disagree.
I got Owen Duffy (of OC Duff pickups) wind me a custom tele bridge pickup, flat a5's, #42 wire PE, and wound to 8.00K. The idea was to get a PAF sort of tone from my tele. It worked.
It was not dark, it was not muddy, it was not dull. It sounds great actually. And that's exactly what I would really want from my strat bridge pickup as well.
The thing with the thinner wire is the addition of highs. I agree with you when you say additional #42 could make it too fluffy. Yet as my OC Duff pickups justifies my point of view, it does not have to be if wound right. Anyways, the thinner wire would be more alive.
But as I have said, I would be cool with any true single coil strat pickup that has a ~6.50K #42 tap I can use. The additional wire could be #43 or 42, I don't care because MJ would do it right anyways.
B
Agreed.
I disagree. The Duncan surfer custom bridge measures 10.00K (thus, I guess its #44) and sounds GREAT!
But I am with you on the good old 6.50K #42 formula. Thus, I agree! The good old 6.50K strat pickup!
I disagree.
I got Owen Duffy (of OC Duff pickups) wind me a custom tele bridge pickup, flat a5's, #42 wire PE, and wound to 8.00K. The idea was to get a PAF sort of tone from my tele. It worked.
It was not dark, it was not muddy, it was not dull. It sounds great actually. And that's exactly what I would really want from my strat bridge pickup as well.
The thing with the thinner wire is the addition of highs. I agree with you when you say additional #42 could make it too fluffy. Yet as my OC Duff pickups justifies my point of view, it does not have to be if wound right. Anyways, the thinner wire would be more alive.
But as I have said, I would be cool with any true single coil strat pickup that has a ~6.50K #42 tap I can use. The additional wire could be #43 or 42, I don't care because MJ would do it right anyways.
B
J Moose
New member
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
I
Totally
Love
That.
Run with it.
For everyone who's talking about magnets & wire and whatnot...
I think you're missing the point.
Let the masters figure it out.
Personally?
It could be wound with 25 pound fishing liter around refigerator magnets & I wouldn't care IN THE LEAST as long as it's got the tone.
And to the folks who say they don't like P-90s... have you ever spent any time with a P90, or is it just heresy?
Just about every time I've put a P90 guitar into a players hands... when they've had little to no exposure, they love it. A few have gone out to buy their own after playing mine...
It's right smack between what you get from a Fender single coil and a full-on ball kicking 'bucker.
Yeaaaaah... ball-kicking.
I like that!!!
Lets call this one the ball-kicker!
I
Totally
Love
That.
Run with it.
For everyone who's talking about magnets & wire and whatnot...
I think you're missing the point.
Let the masters figure it out.
Personally?
It could be wound with 25 pound fishing liter around refigerator magnets & I wouldn't care IN THE LEAST as long as it's got the tone.
And to the folks who say they don't like P-90s... have you ever spent any time with a P90, or is it just heresy?
Just about every time I've put a P90 guitar into a players hands... when they've had little to no exposure, they love it. A few have gone out to buy their own after playing mine...
It's right smack between what you get from a Fender single coil and a full-on ball kicking 'bucker.
Yeaaaaah... ball-kicking.
I like that!!!
Lets call this one the ball-kicker!
J Moose
New member
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
Another thought...
Reverse stagger or flat staggered magnets for better string balance
All my favorite strat pickups over the years have been reverse stagger, even if I just flip it around. Takes the wound strings down a hair & puts the taller magnets under the weaker high strings. It's a subtle touch... but worth it.
In the middle position (not where I'd put this anyway...) I always have a problem with the regular stagger because it's right where I pick, gets caught on the mags.
Besides... that's the way Jimi had it... lol
Another thought...
Reverse stagger or flat staggered magnets for better string balance
All my favorite strat pickups over the years have been reverse stagger, even if I just flip it around. Takes the wound strings down a hair & puts the taller magnets under the weaker high strings. It's a subtle touch... but worth it.
In the middle position (not where I'd put this anyway...) I always have a problem with the regular stagger because it's right where I pick, gets caught on the mags.
Besides... that's the way Jimi had it... lol
KeeperOS
New member
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
Oh you're right (assuming it'll have pole pieces at all)
It should have a stagger made for guitars and strings (i.e. unwound G) built THIS millennium
So, I think we're all in agreement right?
So do we ask Evan?
Who'll do the honors?
(JohnnyGuitar? Jeremy?)
Oh you're right (assuming it'll have pole pieces at all
)It should have a stagger made for guitars and strings (i.e. unwound G) built THIS millennium
So, I think we're all in agreement right?
So do we ask Evan?
Who'll do the honors?
(JohnnyGuitar? Jeremy?
)
Last edited:
J Moose
New member
Re: SDUGF Pickup - What's Next?
Hahahaha
Yeah... I know!
The thought of a rail/bar magnet passed through as I was typing that before... but you know...
Whatever works!!!
I'd be lying though if I said I didn't prefer the reverse staggard mags... even if it's just for the kool factor.
Oh you're right (assuming it'll have pole pieces at all
It should have a stagger made for guitars and strings (i.e. unwound G) built THIS millennium
Hahahaha
Yeah... I know!
The thought of a rail/bar magnet passed through as I was typing that before... but you know...
Whatever works!!!
I'd be lying though if I said I didn't prefer the reverse staggard mags... even if it's just for the kool factor.
