SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!... ;)
- Thread starter MetalManiac
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One of Jerry's Kids
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
http://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/tech-tips/difference-between-tube-and-solid-state-guitar-amps
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
http://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/tech-tips/difference-between-tube-and-solid-state-guitar-amps
omg81
New member
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Sadly the OP video doesn't work becaus some supposed legal stuff in my country (Germany).
Don't get me wrong, I'm one to go for the underdogs and stuff, but I havent tried any SS/modelling amp that didn't sounds like plastic ****.
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Sadly the OP video doesn't work becaus some supposed legal stuff in my country (Germany).
Don't get me wrong, I'm one to go for the underdogs and stuff, but I havent tried any SS/modelling amp that didn't sounds like plastic ****.
ehdwuld
A Ficus
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
I always turn the modeling amps to a fender twin and check out the cleans
If it sounds clean and fendery
I.like it
The high gain models sound like so much buzz to me
A solid state amp
Well my solid state amps sound fine to me
The.Laney has a dark British vibe
The Roland cube is a nice practice amp
My Digitech GNX pedal sounds believable
My Joyo character series copies have a nice Fender and Marshall feel
They respond to the volume knob like an amp would
*(Sent from my durned phone!)*
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
I always turn the modeling amps to a fender twin and check out the cleans
If it sounds clean and fendery
I.like it
The high gain models sound like so much buzz to me
A solid state amp
Well my solid state amps sound fine to me
The.Laney has a dark British vibe
The Roland cube is a nice practice amp
My Digitech GNX pedal sounds believable
My Joyo character series copies have a nice Fender and Marshall feel
They respond to the volume knob like an amp would
*(Sent from my durned phone!)*
Red_Label
New member
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
I've been playing a Roland Cube 80XL that I picked-up at a pawn shop for the past two months. In that time, I might have turned-on my Splawn Quickrod or Ceriatone Cupacabra twice each. Don't get me wrong, they are superior amps to the Cube. But dang... I REALLY dig the tone of the Cube and I would/could gig it in a heartbeat. I do plug it into one of my V30-loaded 4x12 cabs, so that certainly helps. And when I'm jonesin for that Bogner tone, I play the Red or Blue pedal into the clean channel of the Cube. The Blue sounds AWESOME (better than it did running into my old SS Twin). The Red is good, but it sounded better into the Twin.
At any rate... I'm now a huge fan of the Cube and despite my "meh" attitude towards non-tube amps over the past several years -- I gotta say that for man cave playing, it really doesn't get any better than the Cube for all practical purposes (and I've had just about all of the top modelers over the past could of years too... like the Eleven Rack, Kemper, etc).
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
I've been playing a Roland Cube 80XL that I picked-up at a pawn shop for the past two months. In that time, I might have turned-on my Splawn Quickrod or Ceriatone Cupacabra twice each. Don't get me wrong, they are superior amps to the Cube. But dang... I REALLY dig the tone of the Cube and I would/could gig it in a heartbeat. I do plug it into one of my V30-loaded 4x12 cabs, so that certainly helps. And when I'm jonesin for that Bogner tone, I play the Red or Blue pedal into the clean channel of the Cube. The Blue sounds AWESOME (better than it did running into my old SS Twin). The Red is good, but it sounded better into the Twin.
At any rate... I'm now a huge fan of the Cube and despite my "meh" attitude towards non-tube amps over the past several years -- I gotta say that for man cave playing, it really doesn't get any better than the Cube for all practical purposes (and I've had just about all of the top modelers over the past could of years too... like the Eleven Rack, Kemper, etc).
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TimmyPage
New member
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
I think the biggest problem that Solid State amps face is that most of them are trying to be tube amps. Time after time they advertise a 'tube-like' tone and they try their absolute hardest to get a 'tube' sound and... they still fail completely, because the beauty of a tube tone is in that point where it isn't fully clean and isn't fully dirty. Even the most powerful and expensive modellers like the Axe-FX can produce absolutely beautiful clean tones, and brilliant mid or high gain sounds, but there's that point of 'almost' tipping over the edge into overdrive that they can't seem to nail.
Even my Cube, which I adore so much for small jazz gigs and practice, the clean sounds can be quite lovely, and the overdrive sounds can sound nice (if set up decently..) but you can't ever set it for a natural feeling 'if I dig in, the amp will compress more and have more overdrive'.
Going back to the big problem though, I think solid state amps have a potential to do some really amazing things IF a few companies choose to completely forgo the tube thing and stop pretending to make them something they aren't. Why not build a solid state amp with a filter distortion built in? Or a square wave fuzz signal? How about an amp that has some kind of built in dirty envelope filter that can be controlled to go from the vocal wah thing to a full on synth. Take that idea a step further and have a box which is literally an oldschool Moog style synth attached to a basic preamp tuned for guitar input, and give the player tactile control over every crazy synth element. ( Might not be the normal guitarist's cup of tea, but for an experimental guitarist a box like that could be a dream.
I really have to appreciate jazz amp makers, Henrickson and Polytone and others. They don't rely on having a tubelike tone and instead take their own path to beautiful (albeit extremely hi-fi and immediate) clean tone, and have cultivated their own tonal legacy completely apart from tube amps.
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
I think the biggest problem that Solid State amps face is that most of them are trying to be tube amps. Time after time they advertise a 'tube-like' tone and they try their absolute hardest to get a 'tube' sound and... they still fail completely, because the beauty of a tube tone is in that point where it isn't fully clean and isn't fully dirty. Even the most powerful and expensive modellers like the Axe-FX can produce absolutely beautiful clean tones, and brilliant mid or high gain sounds, but there's that point of 'almost' tipping over the edge into overdrive that they can't seem to nail.
Even my Cube, which I adore so much for small jazz gigs and practice, the clean sounds can be quite lovely, and the overdrive sounds can sound nice (if set up decently..) but you can't ever set it for a natural feeling 'if I dig in, the amp will compress more and have more overdrive'.
Going back to the big problem though, I think solid state amps have a potential to do some really amazing things IF a few companies choose to completely forgo the tube thing and stop pretending to make them something they aren't. Why not build a solid state amp with a filter distortion built in? Or a square wave fuzz signal? How about an amp that has some kind of built in dirty envelope filter that can be controlled to go from the vocal wah thing to a full on synth. Take that idea a step further and have a box which is literally an oldschool Moog style synth attached to a basic preamp tuned for guitar input, and give the player tactile control over every crazy synth element. ( Might not be the normal guitarist's cup of tea, but for an experimental guitarist a box like that could be a dream.
I really have to appreciate jazz amp makers, Henrickson and Polytone and others. They don't rely on having a tubelike tone and instead take their own path to beautiful (albeit extremely hi-fi and immediate) clean tone, and have cultivated their own tonal legacy completely apart from tube amps.
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
I think it's cool that SS tries to emulate tube tone for the most part ..& it's interesting how far they can go with that. Some of the newer SS &/or hybrid stuff out there has no trouble emulating light tube breakup...both sensitivity/feel & sound-wise (close enough to fool any player with a blindfold on I'll wager..). Having said that SS can actually take things further & be a whole lot more versatile..especially with extreme high gain. Like everything else in the guitar playing world the biggest problem SS faces is perception/credibility. People won't pay big bucks for SS stuff so it's easier/more profitable/safer for manufacturers to stick with producing tube stuff & rehashing each others designs all day long....
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
I think it's cool that SS tries to emulate tube tone for the most part ..& it's interesting how far they can go with that. Some of the newer SS &/or hybrid stuff out there has no trouble emulating light tube breakup...both sensitivity/feel & sound-wise (close enough to fool any player with a blindfold on I'll wager..). Having said that SS can actually take things further & be a whole lot more versatile..especially with extreme high gain. Like everything else in the guitar playing world the biggest problem SS faces is perception/credibility. People won't pay big bucks for SS stuff so it's easier/more profitable/safer for manufacturers to stick with producing tube stuff & rehashing each others designs all day long....
Wormhelmet
New member
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Since generalizing amps seems to be pretty popular here, I doubt anybody will mind me saying I tried a few tube amps and wasn't impressed. I tried an Electar 10 and a crate v18. Since I tried those, I know that all tube amps must sound like them. I was thinking about trying a Marshall, but after trying tubes, I wasn't real impressed. Don't see what the big deal is about a tube amp......
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Since generalizing amps seems to be pretty popular here, I doubt anybody will mind me saying I tried a few tube amps and wasn't impressed. I tried an Electar 10 and a crate v18. Since I tried those, I know that all tube amps must sound like them. I was thinking about trying a Marshall, but after trying tubes, I wasn't real impressed. Don't see what the big deal is about a tube amp......
TimmyPage
New member
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
That's actually a really fair point to make in this discussion. Like I said above, I've played some high end solid state jazz amps and they sound really beautiful, but most people don't really get a chance to try high end solid state gear. Not digital, like the Axe-Fx, but solid state. Most of them got turned off solid-state stuff by the cheap crappy practice amps they grew up using.
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Since generalizing amps seems to be pretty popular here, I doubt anybody will mind me saying I tried a few tube amps and wasn't impressed. I tried an Electar 10 and a crate v18. Since I tried those, I know that all tube amps must sound like them. I was thinking about trying a Marshall, but after trying tubes, I wasn't real impressed. Don't see what the big deal is about a tube amp......
That's actually a really fair point to make in this discussion. Like I said above, I've played some high end solid state jazz amps and they sound really beautiful, but most people don't really get a chance to try high end solid state gear. Not digital, like the Axe-Fx, but solid state. Most of them got turned off solid-state stuff by the cheap crappy practice amps they grew up using.
Wormhelmet
New member
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
There are a lot of improvements in Solid State the last few years. There have been in the past, a ton of lousy little solid state practice amps.
I personally have two examples in my house of extreme ends of solid state tone - an Acoustic G20 which is only tolerable on clean sounds and has a lousy little 10" speaker. Gain sound is terrible, no matter what setting. Even the clean is sterile and harsh to my ears. It was all of $60 new (sale price). I also have an AMT SH-50-4 Stonehead 50 watt head running into a Marshall 2/12 cab that I would gladly put up against many of my previous tube amps in a head to head. Its a dream to play, has the feel and dynamics sensitivity of tubes and does not do modeling. It is all JFET with 4 channels and easily dials in classic to screaming high gain warm sounds that feel alive when you play it. $700 for the Stonehead. Night and day difference. Again, it is not a modeler.
I do have extensive experience with modeling software (10 years using software amps on PC including the very awesome SimulAnalog G suite freebie, Revalver, Overloud, Line 6, Amplitube, Guitar Rig, and on iOS, Bias, Jamup Pro, Ampkit+) and some of that stuff takes a lot of tweaking to sound usable, some of it easy to get usable. The closest modeling I've used so far is Bias and the GUI-less free G Suite Studio from SimulAnalog, which does a Marshall JCM900 Dual Reverb, 1969 Fender Twin clean plus tube screamer, SD-1, DS-1, Univibe, and Oberheim phaser models, all without a GUI and just settings tweakable in your DAW. Also have a Digitech RP360XP that is both good and bad. Good clean and lower gain classic amps, bad high gain models (most of them) and takes a lot of massaging to get good tones, but can be done.
I still am extremely limited in amp experience to make any kind of statements about tube this or solid state that or even generalizations about modeling. My SS experience includes Roland, Kustom, Crate, Peavey, AMT, Randall, Acoustic, Fender, Traynor, Gorilla. My tube amp experience includes Marshall, Mesa Boogie, Fender, Laney, Dean Markley, Peavey, Engl, Sunn, Randall, Kustom, Crate, Carvin, probably a few others I've forgotten about over the years. Hybrid amp experience with Orange, Mahaffay, even Line 6/Bogner.
I could not make a single statement on tube, hybrid, solid state, or digital modeling, even after playing through or owning all that stuff, that would fit all the different examples across the board. There is no 'one statement' that applies. I also currently use examples of all of those. Ok, maybe one statement that applies to my current lineup of tube, SS, Hybrid, and modeling - its all fun to play because I did some research first before making purchases I would regret (even the Acoustic G20 sounds good with an AMT JFET preamp drive going into the clean side).
If anyone is making statements about solid state amps sound like _______ , or tube amps are _______ (fill in the blanks), then I say they have limited experience and its ridiculous to lump anything into a simple generalization.
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
There are a lot of improvements in Solid State the last few years. There have been in the past, a ton of lousy little solid state practice amps.
I personally have two examples in my house of extreme ends of solid state tone - an Acoustic G20 which is only tolerable on clean sounds and has a lousy little 10" speaker. Gain sound is terrible, no matter what setting. Even the clean is sterile and harsh to my ears. It was all of $60 new (sale price). I also have an AMT SH-50-4 Stonehead 50 watt head running into a Marshall 2/12 cab that I would gladly put up against many of my previous tube amps in a head to head. Its a dream to play, has the feel and dynamics sensitivity of tubes and does not do modeling. It is all JFET with 4 channels and easily dials in classic to screaming high gain warm sounds that feel alive when you play it. $700 for the Stonehead. Night and day difference. Again, it is not a modeler.
I do have extensive experience with modeling software (10 years using software amps on PC including the very awesome SimulAnalog G suite freebie, Revalver, Overloud, Line 6, Amplitube, Guitar Rig, and on iOS, Bias, Jamup Pro, Ampkit+) and some of that stuff takes a lot of tweaking to sound usable, some of it easy to get usable. The closest modeling I've used so far is Bias and the GUI-less free G Suite Studio from SimulAnalog, which does a Marshall JCM900 Dual Reverb, 1969 Fender Twin clean plus tube screamer, SD-1, DS-1, Univibe, and Oberheim phaser models, all without a GUI and just settings tweakable in your DAW. Also have a Digitech RP360XP that is both good and bad. Good clean and lower gain classic amps, bad high gain models (most of them) and takes a lot of massaging to get good tones, but can be done.
I still am extremely limited in amp experience to make any kind of statements about tube this or solid state that or even generalizations about modeling. My SS experience includes Roland, Kustom, Crate, Peavey, AMT, Randall, Acoustic, Fender, Traynor, Gorilla. My tube amp experience includes Marshall, Mesa Boogie, Fender, Laney, Dean Markley, Peavey, Engl, Sunn, Randall, Kustom, Crate, Carvin, probably a few others I've forgotten about over the years. Hybrid amp experience with Orange, Mahaffay, even Line 6/Bogner.
I could not make a single statement on tube, hybrid, solid state, or digital modeling, even after playing through or owning all that stuff, that would fit all the different examples across the board. There is no 'one statement' that applies. I also currently use examples of all of those. Ok, maybe one statement that applies to my current lineup of tube, SS, Hybrid, and modeling - its all fun to play because I did some research first before making purchases I would regret (even the Acoustic G20 sounds good with an AMT JFET preamp drive going into the clean side).
If anyone is making statements about solid state amps sound like _______ , or tube amps are _______ (fill in the blanks), then I say they have limited experience and its ridiculous to lump anything into a simple generalization.
lucaspaço
New member
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Not only in the last few years...
Wish we could ask Dimebag Darrell or Chuck Schuldiner about that!!!
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Not only in the last few years...
Wish we could ask Dimebag Darrell or Chuck Schuldiner about that!!!
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Sounds exactly like a solid state amp to me... Kinda thin, "cardboardy", and "congested"... Like it needs to blow it's nose or sneeze...
Pantera sounds the same way I think... Good guitar work, just weak tone...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Sounds exactly like a solid state amp to me... Kinda thin, "cardboardy", and "congested"... Like it needs to blow it's nose or sneeze...
Pantera sounds the same way I think... Good guitar work, just weak tone...
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Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
*cough* metal zone *cough* metal zone *cough*
I kid I kid I kid.... sorry I just couldnt resist after you said that.
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
*cough* metal zone *cough* metal zone *cough*
I kid I kid I kid.... sorry I just couldnt resist after you said that.
TimmyPage
New member
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
I used to love Death, really and genuinely, and their tone fit the music perfectly... brutal, ugly and angular. It wasn't a 'good' tone, but more importantly it was fitting tone.
Dimebag's sound is fairly similar.. dry, raspy, piercingly bright.
I think something interesting could be said about our pursuit of tone, in how we so often forget context and fitting the music. Sure you can have a 63' Strat into a Klon into a stereo setup of a Dumble and a Trainwreck amp... but if you're playing gritty roots rock or downtempo blues it'll sound way too smooth and singing to sound natural. I think in a weird way, a lot of metal has lost that: I keep hearing hundreds of modern extreme metal dudes with EXACTLY the same sound. 5150 (or related) high gain amp, pushed with tubescreamer, high output pickups. Riffs are different but tone is more or less the same (NOT discounting how amazing the musicians are).
But someone like Chuck or Dime, you hear them play and IMMEDIATELY know it's them.
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
I used to love Death, really and genuinely, and their tone fit the music perfectly... brutal, ugly and angular. It wasn't a 'good' tone, but more importantly it was fitting tone.
Dimebag's sound is fairly similar.. dry, raspy, piercingly bright.
I think something interesting could be said about our pursuit of tone, in how we so often forget context and fitting the music. Sure you can have a 63' Strat into a Klon into a stereo setup of a Dumble and a Trainwreck amp... but if you're playing gritty roots rock or downtempo blues it'll sound way too smooth and singing to sound natural. I think in a weird way, a lot of metal has lost that: I keep hearing hundreds of modern extreme metal dudes with EXACTLY the same sound. 5150 (or related) high gain amp, pushed with tubescreamer, high output pickups. Riffs are different but tone is more or less the same (NOT discounting how amazing the musicians are).
But someone like Chuck or Dime, you hear them play and IMMEDIATELY know it's them.
Wormhelmet
New member
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS SUCK!...
Plenty of metal bands that preferred scooped mids and thin tone out of tube amps too. I certainly wouldn't classify Dimebag's tone as solid state. I would classify it as Dimebag's tone. Not the sound I get out of my solid state or even modeling sims.
Plenty of metal bands that preferred scooped mids and thin tone out of tube amps too. I certainly wouldn't classify Dimebag's tone as solid state. I would classify it as Dimebag's tone. Not the sound I get out of my solid state or even modeling sims.
ehdwuld
A Ficus
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS (DO NOT) SUCK!...
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS (DO NOT) SUCK!...
Sometimes my buddy derides my "crappy" tone
But once the rest of the instruments come in, it fits
Doesn't disappear in the mix. Is unique and beautiful
To me anyways. And that's who i aim to please
*(Sent from my durned phone!)*
Re: SOLID STATE AMPS (DO NOT) SUCK!...
Sometimes my buddy derides my "crappy" tone
But once the rest of the instruments come in, it fits
Doesn't disappear in the mix. Is unique and beautiful
To me anyways. And that's who i aim to please
*(Sent from my durned phone!)*
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