STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

[AmirH]

Hello all,

At this point I've pretty much decided I want the a2p for the neck of my schecter. Both pups will be covered and wax potted. I was going to match it with a cc, since it seems to have a serious problem with brightness/icepick sound with the duncan designed jb/jazz type pu's in there but after listening to quite a few sound clips it seems like I might have some trouble doing metal- which in all honesty is what I play most. I'm not a shredder by any means so I figured the a2p would be clear enough to do semi fast runs but leave me with a nice tame top end and enough versaitility for my other tastes. SOOOOO... for a good metal bridge pup that would clean up semi ok(doesn't have to be great, thats what the a2p is for) and has a good bit of chunk for palm mutes and whatnot- C5, DD, or Jb with 250k pots? Would the weaker pots adversely affect a2p or furthermore would the jb even have enough bottom end? It's a mahogony guitar with mahogony neck and rosewood fingerboard but it's pretty thin and has an upper middy acoustic tone. I noticed someone(fretfire I think) has one almost identical with a C5, I'm just nervous to take the plunge because many say it's too trebly. Maybe someone could post some metal clips with one? Gonna be used with a vamp2, peavey bandit, and a nicer modeller when I can afford it.

No rush btw- I managed to get some decent tones out of those duncan designed pups with enough tweakage, just not so great sounding for my usual styles- but the emgs in my sg pretty much take care of what the schecter can't do right now. OOOH- to give you an idea of what I like, I use the emg 85 or both together FAR more then the 81 by itself. I like my metal tones beefy damnit!

Haha, sorry to pester all of you more. But I'm gonna get em installed professionally so it'll get very pricey very quickly if I have to exchange em multiple times

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

Let's try to slip this under the radar for once...


Dimarzio Tone Zone. Excellent metal pup. Excellent definition without piercing highs. Before I switched to it, I thought about replacing my e- and b-strings tailpieces with graphite ones to tame the highs. No more need for it. I use it in the bridge of my SG Standard. I use it mainly with a PodXT and it sounds phenomenal (to my ears) with it. I can post some clips when my arm heals.

And now even more blasphemy... take a PAF Pro for the neck!

 

[AmirH]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

haha, thanks- now I'm completely confused again. But y'know what? I think I'll try that combo anyway. Seems like duncan has a huge line and every single one those pups has SOMETHING that could prevent it from sounding right in my guitar. I know a guy that has a paf pro in his jem and his tone is phenomenal- so that's probably a good setup. Really do want to try the a2p though- the few clips I've heard make it sound quite warm and enticing... Now, who's first to violently flame either of us for taking dimarzio into consideration :laugh2:

btw- I would be interested in hearing a clip

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

I don't know this, but is there any problem with mixing Duncans and DiMarzio's from a polarity/wind direction standpoint? Anyone know?

Think of it like this. The C-5 has tight percussive bass, neutral mids, and vintage highs
The CC has no icepick, the accentuated mids are lower mids. and the lows are warm. The JB has decent lows, the mids are mostly upper mids, and the highs are somewhat thick. I'd go with the CC/APII or C-5/59

 

[AmirH]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

Yeah, as stated before I was pretty much gonna go with the cc/apII but it seems too sloppy for metal- which is mainly what I play. Not 80's metal either mind you- so I when I palm mute- I want plenty of definition, and when I play leads I'd rather that it "sing" then squel like the sounds that are associated with most metal. That's why I was thinking that the c-5/aIIP might work better, because I'd get the best of both worlds. But would the c-5 overpower the alnico II? Such a damn dilemma... I must be destined to spend tons of money finding the right sound

If anyone has info on mixing and matching duncans and dimarzio it would be appreciated. I know for a fact I like the sound of the paf pro- it really sings quite well in Dave's jem, and he uses a Vamp as well.

edit: here are a couple clips of the vein I play most in- recorded with absolute **** tone. Hopefully it might give you an idea what what I'm REALLY looking for based on whats lacking here. Bear in mind also that versatility is good since I love jazz, 70's prog, several other styles just as much.

http://elboardo.com/amir/the_path_m500.mp3

http://elboardo.com/amir/working jazz.mp3

http://elboardo.com/amir/experi_beta1.mp3

 

[BigBazz]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

versatility is good since I love jazz, 70's prog, several other styles just as much.

http://elboardo.com/amir/the_path_m500.mp3

http://elboardo.com/amir/working jazz.mp3

http://elboardo.com/amir/experi_beta1.mp3

ya didnt mention death metal. if thats your tone i suggest more highs and mids(maybe an amp setting problem)also the tone sounds digital. get some valves(a valve amp i mean) and you'le never turn back. as for a pickup i personnaly love the full shred, jb, and dimarzio evolution. They are all such great pickups and more than capable of doing metal sounds but versatile enough to do other styles and still clean up nicely. im in a metal/hardcore band at the moment and my friends said to me "youve been listening to too much arch enemy m8", which is probably true because i saw them live and thier phenomenal and my tone is shaping up like thiers, not intentionally, its just the amp i suppose

 

[AmirH]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

Digital tone=vamp, and stock pickups in a 200 dollar guitar. The other two were the schecter that will be getting new pups- the 200 dollar guitar now has emgs. As for the valvestate- Amps like that have to be cranked don't they? The advantage for me with modellers is that I can use headphones and record my stuff late into the night. I WILL be upgrading to a podxt with metal packs or that snazzy new gt-8 in the near future.

I've been quite interested in the evolution actually- and the full shred is used by Opeth, but they process the hell out of it with that gt-6 I reckon. The jb, as stated previously is too upper mid focused on this guitar unless I put in different pots. Possible combos going through my head now... evolution/paf pro, evolution/alnico2 fullshred/alnico 2...

damnit.

 

[BigBazz]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

can i suggest you leave multi effects out of it, ive talked to a lot of proffesionals in the business and you need a pretty pricey multi effects unit thats well setup through a really transparent sounding amp or a PA system prefeably to get a nice sound from them, the pod wont be a huge stepup from the vamp and the gt8 will just be a monsterous load of effects (its a great unit but most people use seperate distortion pedals with them). to get the sound supposing you cant afford a real valve amp (and valve amps are redicoulously loud even the low powered ones) i suggest you get something like a Marshall Avt150. your in with your death metal stuff, take your emg(please dont tell me you got the hz instead of the actives :S) and put it into one of the avt amps, at first it may not seem as good but after playing for a while and seeing its features and amazing reccording quality and the best part is that avt amps sound amazing live, in my band i use a peavey 5150 stack the other guitarist uses a Marshall avt150 combo plugged into a 300watt 4x12 cab and il argue with anyone that it sounds just as good, lucky for him also due to the super high quality effects he just uses the ones built in and i had to spend a load of money on expensive stomp boxes. make sure you try one of those amps cranked up with scoop in and out and im sure you will agree, they go for quite cheap now also im told.

keep your sound real, go for a real amp and leave your multi effects behind, i did and it was the best decision i ever made , i have about 3 effects units lieing around and i just use them for recording now (when the avt150 is in my bedroom i record with that since the 5150 is crap for recording despite bieng a top class valve amp.

as for pickups, the Emg81,83 active pickups ive been told are good but i would not use them, i like to stick with the Full shred, dimarzio evolution, Sd Jeff Beck and theres a few other good ones i like but thier my favs

 

[AmirH]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

You're gonna have to keep in mind that I hardly gig if ever and for the most part write music right here in front of the computer, through headphones, at 3 in the morning. For my purposes it's hard to top modellers, and you'd be surprised how realistic the podxt can sound when tweaked properly. Heck- I've even gotten good tones out of the Vamp with a few tricks- the clips I posted are examples of what I'm trying fix. The finished one is quite old(nearly a year) and the other two are(obviously) beta. I KNOW there's no good replacement for the real deal but I can't record with those volume levels. When I gig I may look into a nicer amp setup, but currently as far as real amps go... I have a peavey bandit- which is the same combo used in sunlight studios for quite some time. Throw an hm-2 in front of it and you've got instant entombed tone. I WILL be looking into that marshall if it's as good as you say though- for when I start gigging more often. All I have right now is a drummer- but he found another guitarist for us supposedly so I don't even know what situation we're in anymore

As for the emgs- I got the active ones, because the sg is a mystery wood and I figured it would help cover that up. I'm actually quite pleased with them, especially the 85. They just don't clean up great.

I think I'm just gonna try the full shred. You've recommended it twice now, it only had one bad harmony central review, Mike from Opeth uses em and I'm a total Opeth fanboy, and frankly I'm tired of thinking about this. Hopefully it'll do what I need and I won't have to worry about this anymore. Still interested about wether its ok to mix and match duncan and dimarzio as I DO really like the paf pro, but the a2p will probably be equally lovely. Guess it'll be the neck pickup I have trouble deciding on in the end- airy vs. thick. it's like "new vs. paf tone" lol. They're all available with covers right? That's what I gather from the website.

Thanks for the help man.

*gets back to work*

 

[BigBazz]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

its fine to mix and match dimarzios, you could end up being out of phase in which case its a simple wire swap which is stated in the instructions that will come with your pickups. fair enough you sound like me, 3am recording, your digital stuff probably cant really be beaten with a bit of tweaking, though this avt im talking about ive had it 3 years and its served me well it has an emulated line output for recording or pluging into a pa, a headphone out (all used in silent recording), 10 reverb effects, chorus, delay, flanger, phaser, some weird modulation effect and mixed effects, it has an acoustic simulation channel thats footswitchable, an effects loop with a gain boost or decrease designed to be used with multi effects like your vamp and for stomp boxes, classic marshall overdrive, modern marshall overdrive, really tweakable eq's and it really manages to do everything so well. it amazes me how it can have so much built in and sound so good and yet its an analogue amp (the effects section is digital reverb,delay, chorus etc)it sounds great when quiet or when loud (unlike a valve amp) i use it more often than my newly bought and quite frankly really expensive valve amp. i often use my multi units for recording also since i have spent quite some time perfecting a high gain marshall jmp sound and a peavey 5150 sound, the 2 best amps for metal and rock ever (imo). if you dont love the full shred you can hold me responseble, bear in mind that its a medium output pickup unlike those super output emgs, it will do clean sounds lovely, it will sound great for almost any type of music and i would not swap it for any pickup when it comes down to rocking it out in my band with all the heavy metal stuff we do. thats probably why everyone loves the full shred.

 

[AmirH]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

haha, well I definitely wasn't looking to put something as hot as the emgs in this axe. It's such a beautiful guitar- it doesn't deserve to have all the natural tone sucked away by some super high output pup. The sg was a different story- and I don't regret switching for a second because the sound was like night and day.

That marshall sounds pretty sweet for the price man, especially if you use it over a 5150. I have a somewhat older crate pa system that makes it easy to get huge sound by just mic'ing the peavey(the only solid state I've ever really come to like after more than one play) but if this guitarist turns out to be all he's cracked up to be and we start doing more gigs (Mike said he can play TWICE my speed-ouch) then I'm definitely gonna go try one when looking for a better live amp.

Thanks again
-Amir

 

[BigBazz]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

the bandits are great amps. do they have a speaker output? maybe you could save some money and use it. the avt has a valve preamp, i think thats where the sound comes from, only equipment snobs and valve amp builders dont like the avt amps, but ive done gigs and recordings and i have not a single doubt that the avt series sounds better than the marshalls 350watt mode4, the dsl and tsl valve amps and obviously better than the cheapest marshall range the mg series. my peavey 5150 is a great amp but all the money i spend on effects to find that the marshalls reverbs are better than the £100 digitech reverb i got (im from britian yes), i only now use my 5150 live and i have my avt150 for a backup, what worries me is i can get near the exact same tone and quality from the amp that cost so much less, maybe i should have not bothered with the whole valve amp thing lol. most people love them, some people dont so definutly have a good try of one if you do ever decide to splash out your hard earned cash on one.

 

[AmirH]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

Yesh... has speaker output. And I'm so completely broke right now... lol- should probably get those ideas out of my head until I'm done paying tuition God, I really can't concentrate tonight. Keep coming back the forums. I'll be up all night working lol

 

[italic zero]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

I know a certain Brazilian that would object to the opinion that the CC is no good for metal...

 

[AmirH]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

Actually, if you're talking about WITH FULL DISTORTION I think I just heard one of his songs on JammerMatts soundclick page. "crazy brazilian" seems to be the standard description of him isn't it? haha- anyway, I'm pretty glad I didn't jump the gun and buy that because it sounds like it was barely cutting it for that style, very mushy compared to the way my emgs have been sounding. I like his style though- very edge of sanity inspired it sounds like, and it'd be pretty cool to do a track or two with him.

 

[italic zero]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

I think a Custom would be good, then, and put in the 250k pots if you think it's too bright. It has more of a lower mid emphasis than the JB. I, too, have a problem with ice pick sounds. That's why I adjust the tone knob constantly. I like a pickup to have enough highs, so that they're there if/when I need them. It has pretty good cleans, too, especially split. It's lower output than the distortion, but has enough power to drive your amp, and the clarity of a ceramic. Your choice, though. Between the Custom and the C5, I like the Custom better, but the C5 did have a more natural sound, and would probably be better for classic rock.

 

[AmirH]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

I think I've already decided at this point to try a fullshred in the bridge and draw out the lower frequencies with my amp. I'll probably put an a2p in the neck since the paf pro is kinda high output compared to the fs, and those two pups will probably give me the versatility I need. The other obvious option of course is to try a custom/paf pro combo but I think I'll try the latter first and see if it works for me.

 

[Artie]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

I don't know if this will be of any value at this point, but its a little clip, of a simple chord progression, of a C5 and a JB.

It goes C5 clean, JB clean, C5 dirty, JB dirty.

The C5 is in the bridge of a basswood, Tele-style Peavey Genny.
The JB is in the bridge of a poplar, Strat-style Peavey Patriot.

All played through a Johnson J-Station and a Yamaha effects unit for the "grunge".

C5 - JB comparison

 

[Schecter006Elite]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

As you can tell from my name, I have a schecter too. I am going to switch to an A2p in my neck cuz everyone with a schecter is saying how awesome they are so ill get one soon cuz i have a fullshred in my neck and its too bassy. I have a Distortion in my bridge and that thing KICKS @$$! its awesome with the right settings. I play through a Marshall MGDFX 100watt solid-state combo with Zakk Wylde Strings (except I like a wound 18 gauge 3rd instead of the plain 17 gauge one) and this thing blows me away. I will say it took me some adusting to my bridge for to get the tension right because the magnet is so big in that thing that the tension of the strings makes a huge difference in the sound. Once I got it perfect I blasted my amp and started playing. I seriously almost nutted myself, its AWESOME!

 

[AmirH]

Re: STILL can't decide on a bridge pup

Thanks artie that helped quite a bit, not the sound I was looking for.

haha- don't say the schecter006elite! I thought I had decided!!! At least it's narrowed down to those two pups then. If I don't end up liking the fulllshred in the bridge I guess I'll know what to try next. I'm gonna go order them tomorrow, since they aren't stocked with covers. Thanks for the help everyone.