Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

[donahue]

I know a fair bit about Les Paul Customs, but I want to hear from the people that own them, and why? The reason is that I"m very seriously considering buying one. This is a big purshase for me. I've always loved the looks of them, compared to a regular Les Paul, but sadly, that's about as far as my personal experience goes. I"m left handed, so good luck finding one to try out. This thread isn't about beauty though. We all know a Gibson Les Paul Custom is beautiful. I'm wondering about feel and functionality/specs vs. a Les Paul Standard or any other Les Paul for that matter. What I"m really after is?

Why a custom over a standard?
Are they really that much heavier?
Are they all solid mahogany? The new ones have maple caps?
What are the main differences?
Besides aesthetics, is there a main advantage/disadvantage of a Custom, over another Les Paul model?
What are the "good" years?
Is 1992 a "good" year?
Can I prove the year from markings on the guitar itself?
How does a Les Paul Custom differ tone-wise from a Les Paul Standard?

Basically tell me everything about Les Paul Customs. I've wanted a Les Paul since I started playing, but I never thought a Custom was within my reach. Now I'm considering it.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

1. Why a custom over a standard?

Pretty much just because they look different.

2. Are they really that much heavier?

Not as far as I can tell. A three pickup model, yes, just a bit.

3. Are they all solid mahogany? The new ones have maple caps?

Nope. There have been some changes throughout the years. Most have maple tops AFAIK, at least since they were reissued following their discontinuance in the very early '60's. However, with all the various reissues and CS/Heritage stuff, I'm sure there have been some modern ones made that are all mahogany.

4. What are the main differences?

Differences between the all mahogany ones and the maple-topped ones? IMO, it will depend on individual pieces of wood used, as opposed to generalizations about one species or the other. I have played maple-topped guitars that were nothing but mud, though the common (mis?)conception is that maple gives a brighter sound.

5. Besides aesthetics, is there a main advantage/disadvantage of a Custom, over another Les Paul model?

In terms of newer ones, the disadvantage is that they cost more, for basically nothing but a difference in looks. Perhaps a difference in frets, if the BB has the vintage-correct low and wide frets. The advantage is that the Customs probably retain value better, should you want to resell some day. In terms of vintage ones, it is the opposite. The Customs are far less desirable.

6. What are the "good" years?
7. Is 1992 a "good" year?

My advice is to stay away from the Norlin ones and get one from the '90's or early aughts. I also advise to seriously consider getting one with soapbars instead of humbuckers. Then there really will be a tonal difference! They are out there; you just have to look harder.

8. Can I prove the year from markings on the guitar itself?

If you get one from the early '80's and newer, any idiot can easily tell the exact date the guitar was stamped with it's serial. The first and fifth digits equal the last two numbers of the year. The second through fourth read as one number, which states the day of the year on which the guitar was made. The digits after the fifth are the actual serial production number. For example, 03003608 = 0-300-3-608= 300th day of 2003, serial production number 608. The first five are just a date code. There is some weird monkey business with the serials in earlier ones, but you can usually get very close anyhow by looking at serials combined with unique features.

9. How does a Les Paul Custom differ tone-wise from a Les Paul Standard

IMHO, not very much, as a rule. It depends on the individual guitars in question. I personally believe that the ebony fretboards and low, wide frets have a slight deadening/muddying effect on the tone, but that is just a generalization. As I stated before, I believe it comes down to individual pieces of wood rather than sweeping generalizations.

FWIW, I have an example of what I think must be one of the worst sounding Customs ever made. 1983. 3-piece maple neck, multi-piece body, 3-piece maple top. Horrendous guitar, from the dark ages of Gibson (and Fender). It is piles of trash like this being churned out by Gibson and Fender that caused the older guitars to start going up in value in the first place. (And now people are paying big bucks for '70's and early '80's guitars. It is the dumbest thing ever...but whatever. That is beside the point.) But they got the paint looking good, it played well, and it was cheap, so I got it thinking I would just do a pickup swap. It took P-90's and 1 meg pots to get anything but mud out of it. Now it is one of the greatest sounding Customs I've ever heard...but it took what most people would consider a sacrilegious permanent modification.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

I do not own a Gibson Les Paul Custom, but I have played one - a black, 2 pickup model. It was old forum bro "brisk"s guitar.

I have an Epiphone Les Paul Custom, but that's not entirely relevant - it's a quite different guitar.

The all mahogany construction as opposed to mahogany with a maple cap is a HUGE factor. I find them to be more powerful sounding - more low mids, more lows, more resonance overall.

They are called "fretless wonders" for a reason. They have low, wide frets. Very, very smooth to play. Also great for those with a heavy touch - no more sharp notes because you press down too hard.

That's all I know. Not a lot of info, but a little bit that might help.

edit: 1992 ought to be a "good year," 1990s Les Pauls (of all types) are regarded as the best in recent history. I strongly encourage you to shop "blind" though - forget all years, rumors, and everything else and be honest with yourself about whether it wows you or not.

 

[formula73]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

My experiences with LPCs has been fairly widespread. I've had 2 81s, 1 73, and an 05 CS model. My first 81 had the low/wide frets. The 2nd 81 and 73 had been refretted with railroad track by the time I got them, and the 05 had medium/vintage wire-not exactly the fretless wonder stuff most people think of when talking LPCs. Both 81s were boat-anchors but played fairly well, as I like the thin Norlin necks, but both were very bright. I figure it was the 3pc maple necks along with whatever uber-dense mahogany they used once they abandoned the pancake thing and went back to 1pc in 77/78. The 73, even with the pancake body, is the lightest of the bunch at just over 9lbs and has the highs of the 81s but also more in the way of midrange and low mids. It's my favorite. The 05 was nice but it had a fat neck with big shoulders and just didn't fit my hand. It had the smoothest tone of the 4, especially with the big 498t in there, and had massive low mids. I wish I'd kept it, even with the weird neck. Of the 4, it was the most resonant and loudest, unplugged.

And, goddammit, it was a white LPC. Why can't I hold onto a white LPC????:firing:

Oh, and Norlins also generally have shallower top carves which are more comfortable on my forearm.

I never had one of the all mahogany versions, though I'd love to give one a shot.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

....

Why a custom over a standard?

Because I prefer the tonal depth, bite and smooth feel under the fingers of Ebony

Are they really that much heavier?

No, many are lighter than standards, they weigh more or less the exact same / are just as inconsistent as the rest.

Are they all solid mahogany? The new ones have maple caps?

Wrong way around. A traditional Les Paul Custom has a maple top just like any other normal Les Paul. There are however some models for ex. a few 3 pickup black beautys that are full mahogany.

Besides aesthetics, is there a main advantage/disadvantage of a Custom, over another Les Paul model?

Ebony Fretboard

What are the "good" years?
Is 1992 a "good" year?

Can you tell a woman´s personality and ra size just by seeing her age written on a piece of paper and nothing else? The exact same goes for all of this "good years, bad years" shenanigans.

If there is ANY instrument that needs to be played in person before selected, it´s a Les Paul, due to the basic manufacturing inconsistencies.

There are good and bad examples through ALL eras. Most Purists however stray away from Norlin-era instruments, which ended in the mid 80s. Most of the aforementioned "Fretless wonders" are also from this era. Some of the best guitars I´ve ever played and deeply regret selling are also from this era.

Can I prove the year from markings on the guitar itself?

Yes, Gibson serial numbers can be used to date the instrument and find out which plant it came from, and can even narrow down the time of day to some extent.

How does a Les Paul Custom differ tone-wise from a Les Paul Standard?

Deeper, brighter and more defined.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

Why a custom over a standard?

Depends on what Custom and what Standard.

In real life the only major difference you notice is the ebony board.

Are they really that much heavier?

Depends on which period.

Modern regular LPCs are swiss-cheesed. They still tend to be heavier than swiss-cheesed trads (standard are still really hollow).

The historic line has a solid one, the 1957, but that one has a mahogany top and you need to be careful, some people are very disappointed that they can't make them sound the way they want.

The 1968 model is hollow.

The regular LPC is swiss-cheesed and has a Nashville bridge.

1970ties models of course vary greatly in woods and construction but are all solid and heavy.

Are they all solid mahogany? The new ones have maple caps?
What are the main differences?
Besides aesthetics, is there a main advantage/disadvantage of a Custom, over another Les Paul model?

Repeated questions

What are the "good" years?
Is 1992 a "good" year?

They are swiss-cheesed Nashvilled pieces with the most basic pickups (498T and 490R). Good guitars if that is what you want. Generally the early 1990ties to 1998 or so are consider good Gibson years. But then that also applies to the Standard.

Keep in mind you will have difficulties selling the pickups if you don't like them because the market for cold covered pickups isn't good.

Can I prove the year from markings on the guitar itself?

Serial number.

How does a Les Paul Custom differ tone-wise from a Les Paul Standard?

Gibson seems to pick heavier wood for Customs regardless of construction. Together with the Ebony board and the heavier tuners they usually have more of a "roar" to them than Standards.

That is the only small tendency you can state. Overall a Nashvilled swiss-cheesed LPC isn't too different from a Nashvilled swiss-cheesed standard or traditional (but note that standards from 2005 or so are hollow, not swiss-cheesed).

Basically tell me everything about Les Paul Customs. I've wanted a Les Paul since I started playing, but I never thought a Custom was within my reach. Now I'm considering it.

As you can see, this is too broad a question to really answer.

 

[formula73]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

The only thing I'd argue with, Zerb, is the maple cap thing. In the eyes of the purists, the only 'real' LPCs are solid mahogany, like the originals. The maple cap thing didn't start til '68.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

^^ very good point.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

The maple cap definitely adds some more clarity/brightness compared to the originals that are all mahogany, which are more foused/pushed in the mids. A modern LPC is more like a standard but with the detail and snap ebony provides-hence why alot of metal players like ebony and/or LPCs.

Back in 87 I bought a gorgeous, very well put together brand new black LPC from Chuck Levins , but not long after I got the bug for one of the up and coming PRS guitars, and got rid of the LPC for a 10 top Custom PRS. Never have had another one as the prices are out of control now that they are custom shop built.

I really do prefer the feel and tone of ebony, so if you like that, along with the aesthetics (I do), go for it!

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

Wrong way around. A traditional Les Paul Custom has a maple top just like any other normal Les Paul. There are however some models for ex. a few 3 pickup black beautys that are full mahogany.

If by "traditional," you mean the most common throughout the history of Les Pauls. But the ones from the '50's - i.e. the first ones ever - did not have a maple carved top. That did not start until the original Les Paul body shape (i.e. not the Les Paul "SG" shape) was reissued after a hiatus for most of the '60's.

There are good and bad examples through ALL eras. Most Purists however stray away from Norlin-era instruments, which ended in the mid 80s. Most of the aforementioned "Fretless wonders" are also from this era. Some of the best guitars I´ve ever played and deeply regret selling are also from this era.

Very true about the individuality of instruments. That was the point I hope I got across with my own response, if nothing else.

But the Custom was the "Fretless Wonder" in the '50's too. The low and wide frets were not introduced by Norlin. Though by the numbers, of course, many more were made in the '70's than during the '50's...and most people have not actually played, or even seen, a '50's Custom, so 99.9% of the Fretless Wonders that people know up close and personal have been Norlin or later examples.

I think the Norlin years were the absolute pits. You can see it in the construction quality. It just reeks of large-corporate cheapness. But one can certainly come up with a good instrument from those years. After all is said and done, I love my '83. It looks good, it was affordable, and after a lot of work, it finally sounds good.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

^I didn´t say "introduced by", merely stated that of the few hundred LPs I´ve seen and worked on in the last 20 years those with fretless wonderesque frets were mostly Norlin Era instruments. The main reasons for that you already stated.

I agree that most Norlin era instruments were sub-par, same goes for CBS era fenders. But on teh Flip side, my Flying V is a Norlin and so was the best LPC I ever played, a wine red ´78. She tore every other LP a New one, I still know the serial number just in case she ever pops up again. My first born would be a small price for that guitar :deal:

Ah, and in case we missed mentioning it, modern LPCs have significantly higher frets than the old ones. Not extrahyper dunlop 6000 size, but a "normal" medium jumbo style.

 

[formula73]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

Ah, and in case we missed mentioning it, modern LPCs have significantly higher frets than the old ones. Not extrahyper dunlop 6000 size, but a "normal" medium jumbo style.

Yep, and with that neato square crown that makes intonation a ****ing mess. Those and the neck shape, not the tone, were what eventually sent my 05 on to it's new owner. The search for the perfect white LPC continues.:17:

 

[Jeffrec]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

I've got an '87 Custom that turns out to be the best sounding LP I've ever played. I was always a LP Standard kinda person until I made a temporary trade ('73 Strat fo rthe '87 LPC) until the guy found me a killer Standard. Once I got the Custom home, cleaned it up, and stuck in a set of Antiquities, I was hooked. I haven't regretted it for a moment.

Like someone said before, the original '50s LPC were solid mahogany. I always heard that the newer Customs with the maple caps were brighter than the Standards, but I can't say I hear a huge difference when I've A/B'd mine with standards.

 

[donahue]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

Awesome guys, very informative. I'll have a chance to try out the LPC I"m thinking about buying.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

The Norlin construction oddities do nothing to wreck the guitars, except maybe for the volute. Also demonstrate the power of wood species doesn't really matter. The maple neck thing aren't that different.

You just have to be prepared to fix lousy construction, such as nut, fretwork (very annoying on a LPC with fret edge binding), loose paint. Crazy electronics with PCBs. No wait that's 2011, never mind.

 

[PoorMan]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

What are the "good" years?

I forget if the cutoff was 2004 or 2005, but Gibson made some big changes to their finishes. They became rubbery and overly plasticized. A '92 should have a better (harder) finish. I had a 2008 and it felt like it was dipped in plasti-kote. :thumbsdow

The 90s models I've seen generally had better construction than most newer ones. Some are a little heavier though.

Good guitars.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

Yep, and with that neato square crown that makes intonation a ****ing mess

I don't feel the square crown is necessarily the problem- Hamer USA frets are squared off (and its custom fretwire made just for them) , but the process by which the neck/board is made is very different so that Hamer does not even do any fret levelling/filing on their new instruments at all. The issue is how Gibson makes (or rather DOESN'T make) the necks, as well as how they fit them to the guitar.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

As you can see, this is too broad a question to really answer.

Not really. You've just got to ask yourself "am I a man or a b1tch" and then you'll know whether or not the LP Custom is for you! :fingersx:

 

[AlexR]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

My 2 cents is that the LP custom is a more snarling beast than the standard. Maybe its the ebony board, but most harder rock/metal players on a LP had a Custom (that I know of anyhow). I've only played them in passing, but a friend had a stock 80's Custom then bought a standard. The Custom sizzled, the standard was more sweet toned - only 1 example of each sure, but I was quite amazed at the difference

Don't necessarily be afraid of the Norlin era. The Custom seems to be a better bet from that age bracket than a Standard/Deluxe. Ace Frehley, Adam Jones, and Randy Rhoads all made/make great tones on theirs. The maple neck on many of them also helps with some of the snappy tone.

A few leftys on the bay right now.

A wine red custom is my holy grail, like you I'm lefty so unless I find a store with a lot of options it is really hope for the best.

 

[donahue]

Re: Tell Me About Les Paul Customs Please

A wine red custom is my holy grail, like you I'm lefty so unless I find a store with a lot of options it is really hope for the best.

There's one of those on the bay right now.