Thoughts on A2PN/Custom 5 combo

[Inflames626]

So I finally played around with these a bit since my last post after having set my guitar up to my liking 100%.

Guitar: LTD EC-256
Pickups: A2PN (nickel cover)/Custom 5 black coils, SD logo
2 Triple Shots, phase switch on neck pickup, .22uf master tone knob, independent volume controls
Tuned D standard, 10 gauge Ernie Balls
Independent volume controls

The guitar I was comparing it to is my Hamer Scarab, which has a 57 Classic Plus in the neck and a 498T in the bridge.

Ultimately there were tradeoffs. I don't like one set better than the other, which is good because it keeps me from having the same guitar in my collection twice.

Of the SD sets I've tried, the 59 is my least favorite. The A2PN has an interesting sound and a lot more personality than the 59.

I expected more warmth and low end from the A2PN but I got a flute like tone which would complement an EBow well. Playing with the Triple Shots didn't seem to have much effect. Turning the tone control full bass helped, but I think going to a .47 uf cap will get me the sound I'm hearing in my head.

The 57+ sounded thicker and had more "woo woo" expression with bends, but less of a flute like sound. The A2PN had kind of a notched, hollow mid quality. Comparing the 57+ against an A2PB in the neck may be a fairer comparison.

I expected the A2PN to be the warmest, then the 59, then maybe the Pearly Gates, then the Jazz. But I was surprised at how clean the A2PN is. It reminded me a lot of a Demon. I could easily see an A2PN/Demon set.

The real surprise in this guitar is the Custom 5. It is super versatile with a Triple Shot. Going parallel and out of phase in the bridge gave it an EMG 60 quality.

Being a Custom 5 it of course retained the thumpy scooped mid heavy sounds for low tunings, but once it goes parallel it is a totally different pickup. Really a genius design for SD.

I think the C5 may work very well as a warm neck humbucker in series and a clean, bright neck pickup in parallel. I'll have to see as a I have C5/Custom project planned.

To my ear the C5 is not a 498T killer. The 498T is the best bridge pickup I've ever played and, aside from an EMG 81, is the only pickup I'd use for rhythm and lead from the bridge even when recording. The 498T just does everything other than pay my taxes for me.

But the C5 comes close. It's just a little warmer, sludgier, more scooped--definitely a doom metal pickup. Maybe the Custom will be closer to the 498T with its increased mids.

It seems like the C5 is usually in the Custom's shadow, but SD should promote the C5 more. It's a great pickup.

I may move to an A2PB in the neck or go to a .47uf cap to get more of the sound I'm hearing in my head from the neck.

Output wise they are pretty mismatched. Since I record instead of playing live I set the pickups very close to the strings for the best tone.

In a live situation I'd back the C5 down or use a boost when going to the A2PN. You'll have to play with the heights a bit to get them to match.

Conclusion: may swap out the A2PN for an A2PB in the neck.

I'd be curious to hear Aceman 's thoughts on this.

That's all folks. Thanks for reading.

 

[Inflames626]

Addendum: add the SD AHB-3 to one of the best pickups I've ever played, as well.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I agree the Custom 5 is underappreciated. It has a reputation for extremely scooped mids, which IMO it doesn't deserve.
That said, its mildly scooped character makes it a good match for a midheavy guitar.

I could see it doing well as a neck pickup in your other project.
I'd probably wire it normally parallel, pull-for-series as a boost for neck leads.

 

[Mincer]

I use a C5 and Jazz in an extremely mid-heavy guitar, and they both sound great & complement each other well.

 

[Aceman]

Output wise they are pretty mismatched. Since I record instead of playing live I set the pickups very close to the strings for the best tone.

In a live situation I'd back the C5 down or use a boost when going to the A2PN. You'll have to play with the heights a bit to get them to match.

Conclusion: may swap out the A2PN for an A2PB in the neck.

I'd be curious to hear Aceman 's thoughts on this.

That's all folks. Thanks for reading.

I find the pickups extremely close to the strings is never the best tone. Kills sustain, wolf overtones etc. But you do you.

The A2P bridge isn't gonna be that much of a difference vs the neck on output. I'd have no problem adjusting heights to get those two to work.

 

[Inflames626]

You've got a point there, Aceman . The Custom 5 so close is a bit woofy close to the strings, but the A2PN needs all the help it can get. It is as close as it can get without the string hitting it when played at 22nd fret.

I think I raise the pickups because I raise my action slightly higher than most for better tone and because I hate string buzz, especially on new, heavier sets. Plus I find super low action results in dead spots in the upper frets without a truss rod adjustment.

I'm not scared of truss rod adjustments like many are, but usually a set up on a new/barely used/blem guitar (as this was) is usually pretty close. I don't think going from standard tuning with 9 gauges to D standard with 10 gauges will make that much difference. Who knows, though. I don't have as much experience with 24.75" guitars as I do 25.5".

So from that viewpoint the truss rod seems like an unnecessary extra step. The neck looks pretty straight. I like a small degree of relief/bow in the middle frets and to raise the action higher up above the 12th fret to prevent fretting out where the neck joins the body.

Vibrato is my weakness, also, and a straight neck with low action tends to screw up my vibrato because my ring finger digs in too deep. The fretboard feels too close to my fingers and like the frets need to be scalloped to accommodate the vibrato motion. So I like a bit of a gap there as much as I hate how a higher action screws up my barre chords and legato playing.

 

[Mincer]

You've got a point there, Aceman

Vibrato is my weakness, also, and a straight neck with low action tends to screw up my vibrato because my ring finger digs in too deep. The fretboard feels too close to my fingers and like the frets need to be scalloped to accommodate the vibrato motion. So I like a bit of a gap there as much as I hate how a higher action screws up my barre chords and legato playing.

A scalloped neck helps with these issues.

 

[Aceman]

A scalloped neck helps with these issues.

Or Dunlop Extra Jumbo frets....

 

[GuitarDoc]

StewMac makes a tall fret with a pyramid shape which is really good if you like the feel of large/tall frets.

 

[Inflames626]

Everything is a tradeoff I suppose, GuitarDoc . I guess I like medium jumbo frets. Small frets make legato easier. Tall frets help with vibrato. I suppose I'll have to decide what I spend most of my time doing.

I default to the alternate picking/Paul Gilbert CAGED style because that is the way I was taught. But I want to improve my legato and vibrato.

 

[Inflames626]

Nothing sucks worse than trying to do slides over huge frets.

 

[krovatron]

You make me wish I still had the 498T I ripped out of my SG 15 years ago. I notice it has different specs listed...14.2k and 9k...not sure what mine was. The 490R was great. Just learned that the 496R is ceramic.

I see Charvel is a huge fan of that combo - or perhaps just standard ceramic Custom. I think a Custom Custom / AP2n would be superstrat / FR heaven in the right body.

 

[Ascension]

Like both the Custom 5 and the Alnico Pro II but not together. Agree with Micter that the Custom 5 and the Jazz work very very well in a mid heavy guitar. However the Jazz and the Alnico II are exactly the same pickup as are the Custom 5 and the Custom Custom. I find for me personally the attack and feel of a Alnico II and Alnico VI pickup most of the time is just to different when run together. Saying that i like the combo of the A II Custom Custom bridge and the Alnico II pro neck a lot.

 

[Seashore]

Huh. I like the 498T in the long-scale baritone I put it in a few years ago, and it's a flavor I might want to try in a brighter guitar, but it's not an all-rounder for me. It was always muddy and dark in my Explorer. Bad choice for a stock pickup there IMO. I guess I prefer the sound of a bright pickup in a dark guitar to the reverse. I've been wanting to try a Custom 5 for a while, but hearing it described as warmer and sludgier than a 498T makes me think twice.

 

[Mincer]

Actually, I don't know how a C5 could be described as warm or sludgy. I have it in a guitar with a lot of mids and it clears it right up.

 

[Inflames626]

To give an update on this:

I would say the Custom 5 has extremely scooped mids while the 498T has pronounced upper mids and highs with scooped out low mids.

For me the C5 has thump. The 498T has crunch.

The problem is where we mean lows, mids, and highs. For me low mids are from about 200 hz to about 2 khz. Upper mids are right around 2-5 khz and what I (and most people) probably hear. But I get pretty clinical on this since I like to use a parametric EQ in my DAW to tweak things. I consider highs around 5-6 khz and up.

In general for guitar I want to cut anything between 200hz and 2khz. That's where the bass should live, IMO. 400 hz gets cut on just about everything, especially toms.

Back to the OP:

I tried to A2PB in the neck position. Aceman was right. There isn't a *huge* difference between the neck and bridge but it was just enough to better balance out the A2PB with the C5.

I measured about 8.11-8.13 k for the A2PB vs. 8 k for the neck. Again, not huge, but the bridge seemed a bit warmer while notes also cut through more because of slightly increased output.

I'm guessing there is extra warmth because it's my understanding that bridge pickups are generally darker than neck pickups to offset being in the bridge position.

All I know is I just noticed more positive qualities of the A2PN coming out in the A2PB.

The Triple Shot didn't seem to create much variation in the A2PB either.

Ultimately I like the A2PB and will keep it in the neck. I feel I don't have many other options besides a Demon. I want to stay with an A2 in the neck as I think it is more expressive, especially on bends at 12th fret and up, than an A5 or ceramic.