three mini buckers, three push/pulls, and a mini switch. help!

[SLEEPER 86]

i have an old warmoth strat i'm trying to figure out how to wire up.
i put a duncan cool rails in the neck, vintage rails middle, and a jbj at the bridge.
this guitar has a 5 way, 2 A500k dpdt push-pull tone pots, a B500k dpdt push-pull volume, and a mini switch that has 2 positions and 6 contact points (dpst?). labeled on/on. i could pick up a different mini switch if i need to.

i have been scratching my head for days trying to figure out the best use for the 3 push-pulls and i need some suggestions! there are almost too many possibilities!
once i figure out the layout, i need some help with a wiring diagram. anyone up to the challenge?

thank's in advance!
Eric B

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: three mini buckers, three push/pulls, and a mini switch. help!

Wellcome to the forum

The Neck+Bridge combo is the first to come to mind. All are relatively medium to vintage output pickups so no real use in splitting them just for the sake of splitting.
So at least one of those switches could be used to split the neck and the bridge and turn them both on (regardless of the 5-way) for hum-canceling N+B and N+M+B combos.

After that, an out-of-phase thing could be interesting?

You're gonna need somebody else's help for the wiring diagram though...

 

[Artie]

Re: three mini buckers, three push/pulls, and a mini switch. help!

I think I have a couple in front of you, but let me scan through my "archives" for something interesting/odd. I'll let you know what I come up with.

 

[SLEEPER 86]

Re: three mini buckers, three push/pulls, and a mini switch. help!

thank's guys!
I really appreciate the quick responses
Artie, you're the coolest.
thank's again
Eric B

 

[SLEEPER 86]

Re: three mini buckers, three push/pulls, and a mini switch. help!

i was thinking about 3 volume 3 tone with the push pulls, but i vaguely remember some people having a negative opinin of this..... somewhere.
maybe the 5 way doing N/ NM / M / BM / B
and the dpdt on/on switch either doing a split outer /inner - N / B
or a N/B with a split and paralell or series full buckers
OR.......
(opinions welcome).

 

[MikeS]

Re: three mini buckers, three push/pulls, and a mini switch. help!

few things...

1. that on/on is a DPDT. Basically, you've got 4 DPDT on/ons as it is.
2. with an on/on you lose humbucking capability with inner/outer wiring. It operates as north/south. IMO, this is completely uneccessary with sc-sized humbuckers as the difference is inaudible.
3. can't do 3 volume/3 tone with 3 pots... unless you mean having the pot act as a volume when down and a tone when up. Possible to wire, but IMO horribly impractical.
4. is this an old style or new style vintage rails? the old style was internally wired in parallel and had only 2 conductors. This would limit some of your options. New style has 4 conductors as I understand.

Anyway... I like the idea of splitting the neck and middle with one push/pull, using another push-pull as a "bridge-on" (parallel) and another as a "middle-series." Hmm... that leaves one mini-toggle... maybe use it to select between two different tone circuits?

 

[SLEEPER 86]

Re: three mini buckers, three push/pulls, and a mini switch. help!

Mike, thank's for the input. in response;

1. got that
2. are you saying that splitting one side of the neck and one side of the bridge and running them together would be audibly the same as simply running both pups as humbuckers together, except with added noise?
3. volume down/ tone up was what i was thinking. i am trying to unuderstand why this is impractical. i haven't had experience with a 3 pup setup before. with a 2 pup rig, this is pretty common.
4. it's a new style vintage rails with the 4 conductor wire.

"Anyway... I like the idea of splitting the neck and middle with one push/pull, using another push-pull as a "bridge-on" (parallel) and another as a "middle-series." Hmm... that leaves one mini-toggle... maybe use it to select between two different tone circuits?"
i kind of follow you here but i'm a little unclear on the bridge parallel/ middle series thing. is this for blending pickups? or as an option for getting thru an unruly mix? or both?

 

[SLEEPER 86]

Re: three mini buckers, three push/pulls, and a mini switch. help!

anyone want to try to help clarify mike's response? i guess what's messing me up is;
"2. with an on/on you lose humbucking capability with inner/outer wiring. It operates as north/south. IMO, this is completely uneccessary with sc-sized humbuckers as the difference is inaudible.
and;
"I like the idea of splitting the neck and middle with one push/pull, using another push-pull as a "bridge-on" (parallel) and another as a "middle-series."
i'm not sure why my head is processing this as contradictory, i'm sure it isn't. i think it's the refrence to inner/outer wiring.
sometimes, a diagram is worth a thousand words.

 

[MikeS]

Re: three mini buckers, three push/pulls, and a mini switch. help!

I might have misread one of your earlier posts... I'll get back to your questions on my lunch break.

 

[MikeS]

Re: three mini buckers, three push/pulls, and a mini switch. help!

2. are you saying that splitting one side of the neck and one side of the bridge and running them together would be audibly the same as simply running both pups as humbuckers together, except with added noise?

When you said inner/outer I thought you were referring to being able to select between inner, full, and outer coils with one switch. First, that can't be done with an on/on, and second, IMO, there is no audible difference between the north coil and south coil of a rails or sc-sized humbucker, so there's no point in switching that way. More useful is wiring it up so that the neck and bridge are splittable with one switch, giving you humbucker/split.

3. volume down/ tone up was what i was thinking. i am trying to unuderstand why this is impractical. i haven't had experience with a 3 pup setup before. with a 2 pup rig, this is pretty common.

Why I think it's impractical is that "down" you have zero tone control, and it would be like having the tone on "10" at all times. With the switch "up" you have tone control, but with the volume on "10."

"Anyway... I like the idea of splitting the neck and middle with one push/pull, using another push-pull as a "bridge-on" (parallel) and another as a "middle-series." Hmm... that leaves one mini-toggle... maybe use it to select between two different tone circuits?"
i kind of follow you here but i'm a little unclear on the bridge parallel/ middle series thing. is this for blending pickups? or as an option for getting thru an unruly mix? or both?

Ok, picture a standard 5-way strat and three push/pulls. The 5-way works like any other strat. One push pull splits the bridge and neck pickups. A second push pull adds the bridge in parallel to any position on the 5-way. The third could be used to add the middle pickup in series to whatever the output is on the 5-way.

 

[SLEEPER 86]

Re: three mini buckers, three push/pulls, and a mini switch. help!

2. got it

3.got it. i had it in my head that when you pull the push pull that the volume/ tone would maintain it's present seting.
what if i used concentric pots? an on/on/on mini toggle for neck/ middle split, series neck, and standard strat wiring? or am i overthinking this again? is that too much for the mini toggle?

this looks interesting also;
http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/stratlovers.php
this would also leave a push pull and a mini toggle open for neck bridge split, and something else since it's designed for single coils?

i'll get all this one of these days, ThANK'S for being so patient!

 

[MikeS]

Re: three mini buckers, three push/pulls, and a mini switch. help!

3.got it. i had it in my head that when you pull the push pull that the volume/ tone would maintain it's present seting.

That'd be nice, wouldn't it? Unfortunately, the switch makes it so that when the volume is selected it's like not have a tone control at all.

what if i used concentric pots? an on/on/on mini toggle for neck/ middle split, series neck, and standard strat wiring? or am i overthinking this again? is that too much for the mini toggle?

I'm not quite sure what you're looking to accomplish with the center-on switch. To split both the neck and middle would require two poles. If by "series neck" you mean adding the neck in series to the signal chain then that would require two poles as well. You cannot do all that with a center-on DPDT. That might even be too much for a 4P3T center-on.

this looks interesting also;
http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/stratlovers.php
this would also leave a push pull and a mini toggle open for neck bridge split, and something else since it's designed for single coils?

i'll get all this one of these days, ThANK'S for being so patient!

It's interesting, though I've not tried it. It does contain some sounds I'm not particularly interested in like phase switching, but would be a versatile guitar. If I were to do that with a strat that had three sc-sized buckers I would land a 3PDT on/on that would split all three pickups. For the third push/pull... maybe selectable tone circut? tone circuit bypass? Kill switch?