Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
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Dave Locher
New member
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
What does "class d power" mean in real-world or layman terms? I just did a quick look on Wikipedia and it was all too technical for me to follow.
What does "class d power" mean in real-world or layman terms? I just did a quick look on Wikipedia and it was all too technical for me to follow.
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
I love my Fender Mustang. It's a 100 channel modeling amp with any effect I could ask for built in. And with the optional 4 button footswitch I still paid less than $400 for a 100 watt fully programmable 100 channel amp with a great 12" Celestion speaker.
IMO, players need to open up their minds and stop wanting these new amps to sound exactly like their favorite tube amp.
They don't. But they can sound even better if you use them with imagination and learn to set up your own presets.
If you do, the skies the limit and I can dial in and save guitar sounds that my Deluxe Reverbs could never get.
So what if this amp doesn't sound just like a Deluxe Reverb. What it DOES sound like is new and amazes me more every day.
Times are changing. There's new sounds out there that go beyond the Fender and Marshall tones of 50 years ago.
Complaining that these new amps aren't quite there yet seems close minded. Quite where?
Instead, I've got to say that my old amps are pretty good...but "no where" near my new one in terms of duplicating the tremendous range of sounds I can get out my Mustang III.
I love my Fender Mustang. It's a 100 channel modeling amp with any effect I could ask for built in. And with the optional 4 button footswitch I still paid less than $400 for a 100 watt fully programmable 100 channel amp with a great 12" Celestion speaker.
IMO, players need to open up their minds and stop wanting these new amps to sound exactly like their favorite tube amp.
They don't. But they can sound even better if you use them with imagination and learn to set up your own presets.
If you do, the skies the limit and I can dial in and save guitar sounds that my Deluxe Reverbs could never get.
So what if this amp doesn't sound just like a Deluxe Reverb. What it DOES sound like is new and amazes me more every day.
Times are changing. There's new sounds out there that go beyond the Fender and Marshall tones of 50 years ago.
Complaining that these new amps aren't quite there yet seems close minded. Quite where?
Instead, I've got to say that my old amps are pretty good...but "no where" near my new one in terms of duplicating the tremendous range of sounds I can get out my Mustang III.
EAProwlerB
New member
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
If what you say is true for the Fender Mustang then logically it would have to be true fore the marshal code, Line 6 AmpliFi/Spider, Blackstar ID: Core, a Vamp 2 plugged into a 100W Chinese power amp (total cost $35+$7, includes pedal and carrying case)...This doesn't work for me. Each of these will allow you to tweak and create 100s of sounds but nothing to my ears as beautiful as a Twin Reverb,
If what you say is true for the Fender Mustang then logically it would have to be true fore the marshal code, Line 6 AmpliFi/Spider, Blackstar ID: Core, a Vamp 2 plugged into a 100W Chinese power amp (total cost $35+$7, includes pedal and carrying case)...This doesn't work for me. Each of these will allow you to tweak and create 100s of sounds but nothing to my ears as beautiful as a Twin Reverb,
Drunken Bowling
New member
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
You're not a snob. You just like what you like. There's no shame in that.
You're not a snob. You just like what you like. There's no shame in that.
Sirion
Well-known member
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
The 700 looks very interesting, but I had a couple of questions about it. I am building a omewhat quixiotic rig with an ADA MP-1 that will go into a backline (I am using the term generously) of Greenback loaded cabinets. I have a Marshall 9100 but I find that the difference between tube and solid state power amps isn't large enough to warrant its general use, especially when I get extra distortion from the speakers. But since they are so weak, I need to watch out for the wattage used.
Thus:
First of all it says that it is 700 watts and in stereo. Does this mean that either side will be 350 watt @ 4 ohm? Will it run @ 16 ohm?
And perhaps most importantly: this is obviously geared towards modern modellers. Is there any reason it would not work optimally with a more traditional pre-amp?
This may very well be a contender for me, as it looks like a lot of flexibility and power in a small package. Just to bad that the inputs are on the front, but I guess we're not in 1989 any more…
The 700 looks very interesting, but I had a couple of questions about it. I am building a omewhat quixiotic rig with an ADA MP-1 that will go into a backline (I am using the term generously) of Greenback loaded cabinets. I have a Marshall 9100 but I find that the difference between tube and solid state power amps isn't large enough to warrant its general use, especially when I get extra distortion from the speakers. But since they are so weak, I need to watch out for the wattage used.
Thus:
First of all it says that it is 700 watts and in stereo. Does this mean that either side will be 350 watt @ 4 ohm? Will it run @ 16 ohm?
And perhaps most importantly: this is obviously geared towards modern modellers. Is there any reason it would not work optimally with a more traditional pre-amp?
This may very well be a contender for me, as it looks like a lot of flexibility and power in a small package. Just to bad that the inputs are on the front, but I guess we're not in 1989 any more…
guitfiddle
firstlessonologist
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
Basically, it's an amplifier that goes so far into cutoff that each transistor runs as either all on, or all off like a switch. Instead of ramping up and down, it is all or nothing.
Basically, it's an amplifier that goes so far into cutoff that each transistor runs as either all on, or all off like a switch. Instead of ramping up and down, it is all or nothing.
guitfiddle
firstlessonologist
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
I think the class D amps will be big soon...Orange's little Micro amps are LOUD and sound great. A good tube preamp into a class D will give us super small, powerful amps that sound great.
I think the class D amps will be big soon...Orange's little Micro amps are LOUD and sound great. A good tube preamp into a class D will give us super small, powerful amps that sound great.
EAProwlerB
New member
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
Like this, transparent, small,light and powerfully. I have a 150w version that I use to get an idea of what a guitar sounds like without being colored by the amp.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/IRS2092-IRFB23N20D-Class-D-MONO-Amplifier-Assembled-Board-350W-8ohm-700W-4ohm/32754186240.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.MSSnbV&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10136_10137_10060_10138_10062_10156_10153_10141_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_129_10103_10102_10096_10148_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10143_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10037_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10123_10124,searchweb201603_6,afswitch_1,ppcSwitch_4&btsid=2dd7d6b9-a5ad-405b-88eb-4fa2659af994&algo_expid=ca93ccc0-c47f-48df-b9e9-ab039f7c32c6-0&algo_pvid=ca93ccc0-c47f-48df-b9e9-ab039f7c32c6
Like this, transparent, small,light and powerfully. I have a 150w version that I use to get an idea of what a guitar sounds like without being colored by the amp.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/IRS2092-IRFB23N20D-Class-D-MONO-Amplifier-Assembled-Board-350W-8ohm-700W-4ohm/32754186240.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.MSSnbV&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10068_10130_10136_10137_10060_10138_10062_10156_10153_10141_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_129_10103_10102_10096_10148_10147_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10143_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10037_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10123_10124,searchweb201603_6,afswitch_1,ppcSwitch_4&btsid=2dd7d6b9-a5ad-405b-88eb-4fa2659af994&algo_expid=ca93ccc0-c47f-48df-b9e9-ab039f7c32c6-0&algo_pvid=ca93ccc0-c47f-48df-b9e9-ab039f7c32c6
Dave Locher
New member
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
Holy cow! 700 Watts for $25?!
So does the "all on/off" nature somehow allow for a great deal more power in a smaller package? Is it somehow that much more efficient? I don't know enough about electronics to understand why the Class D setup is so small and powerful.
Holy cow! 700 Watts for $25?!
So does the "all on/off" nature somehow allow for a great deal more power in a smaller package? Is it somehow that much more efficient? I don't know enough about electronics to understand why the Class D setup is so small and powerful.
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
yes, all those things. it also wont work if the voltage is too low, and if it gets too hot usually (at least the better units) will shutoff till it cools down. some say there is a trade off of sonic quality, which i am willing to accept to some degree, but in a live environment i doubt anyone can hear the difference as long as we are talking about high quality units. im sure there is cheap crap out there that sounds like garbage but there are cheap crap tube amps that sound like garbage too. when it comes to the feel of a guitar amp i can notice a difference between a good tube amp and a good class d amp but for pa applications i dont
yes, all those things. it also wont work if the voltage is too low, and if it gets too hot usually (at least the better units) will shutoff till it cools down. some say there is a trade off of sonic quality, which i am willing to accept to some degree, but in a live environment i doubt anyone can hear the difference as long as we are talking about high quality units. im sure there is cheap crap out there that sounds like garbage but there are cheap crap tube amps that sound like garbage too. when it comes to the feel of a guitar amp i can notice a difference between a good tube amp and a good class d amp but for pa applications i dont
Dave Locher
New member
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
It is amazing how much I learn on this forum!
It is amazing how much I learn on this forum!
marcboomer
Bass Player @ Seymour Duncan
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
I've had the pleasure of gigging both the 170 & 700. Rock gigs. Loud. Halfway through the first set, I forget we're not using our big tube heads through the 4x12's. The 700 is discreet 700 watts per side, BTW. It also has True Cab Circuitry *TCC with XLR's. Times are a changin'!
I've had the pleasure of gigging both the 170 & 700. Rock gigs. Loud. Halfway through the first set, I forget we're not using our big tube heads through the 4x12's. The 700 is discreet 700 watts per side, BTW. It also has True Cab Circuitry *TCC with XLR's. Times are a changin'!
EAProwlerB
New member
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
What is true cabinet circuitry? New one on me.
What is true cabinet circuitry? New one on me.
marcboomer
Bass Player @ Seymour Duncan
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
True Cab Circuitry (TCC)™ delivers realistic cabinet sound and feel to your P.A., DAW or studio monitors. The EQ points were chosen by the designers to provide the sound of a tube driven guitar amp, unlike many power amps on the market that serve as a P.A. power amp.
True Cab Circuitry (TCC)™ delivers realistic cabinet sound and feel to your P.A., DAW or studio monitors. The EQ points were chosen by the designers to provide the sound of a tube driven guitar amp, unlike many power amps on the market that serve as a P.A. power amp.
EAProwlerB
New member
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
Thank you. Doesn't that then mean that it shapes the tone tone in a similar fashion to Quilter? I thought it was initially supposed to be transparent so all the tone shaping was done via pedals and processors?
Also you mentioned "700 watts per side". Does that mean it is actually a 1400W amp? Most of the stereo amps on the market report total watts, for instance 150W for a stereo amp with 75W for each output channel.
Thank you. Doesn't that then mean that it shapes the tone tone in a similar fashion to Quilter? I thought it was initially supposed to be transparent so all the tone shaping was done via pedals and processors?
Also you mentioned "700 watts per side". Does that mean it is actually a 1400W amp? Most of the stereo amps on the market report total watts, for instance 150W for a stereo amp with 75W for each output channel.
JeffB
Let it B
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
I agree, pound for pound those little terror amps are loud. But I A/B'ed my MT against my OR15 and really there was no comparison. The OR15 was not only noticably louder but projected much bigger and had a much wider frequency response. Not as bad as typical ss vs tube amps, but still Class D has a ways to go.
I suspect that is why these Duncan amps are rated like they are.
I agree, pound for pound those little terror amps are loud. But I A/B'ed my MT against my OR15 and really there was no comparison. The OR15 was not only noticably louder but projected much bigger and had a much wider frequency response. Not as bad as typical ss vs tube amps, but still Class D has a ways to go.
I suspect that is why these Duncan amps are rated like they are.
EAProwlerB
New member
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
I think the fact that class D amplifiers, with all the obvious benefits of their efficiency, have only really captured a place in the "low" end auto audio system market is that there are still hurdles to cross to get them into the league of Class A and AB amps. Quilter has done a remarkable job and looking forward to hearing how SD's amps sound.
I think the fact that class D amplifiers, with all the obvious benefits of their efficiency, have only really captured a place in the "low" end auto audio system market is that there are still hurdles to cross to get them into the league of Class A and AB amps. Quilter has done a remarkable job and looking forward to hearing how SD's amps sound.
Sirion
Well-known member
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology
Holy mashed potatoes, Batman, it will be WAY beyond anything I could make use of then, especially since each channel only has one output. Oh well, there is always Rocktron, but I like SD… On the plus side, congratiulations with having made an extremely powerful product in a small and compact case! Matrix has had a head start, but this should eat into their market share if it turns out to be done right.
Holy mashed potatoes, Batman, it will be WAY beyond anything I could make use of then, especially since each channel only has one output. Oh well, there is always Rocktron, but I like SD… On the plus side, congratiulations with having made an extremely powerful product in a small and compact case! Matrix has had a head start, but this should eat into their market share if it turns out to be done right.
