whats so good about point to point handwired

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

There are no tonal differences, copper is copper, flat or round....some mighty fine hi-fi amps uses pcb...and they do not sound remotely weak or inferiour, actually almost nobody hardwires their amps in that buisness

Bingo......Exactly and I can back up what I'm saying because I've worked on,tweaked,and played through both....I can use a Marshall as a clear reference...The same year and model Marshall at that...1973 split year PTP and then PCB...

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

thank you all for helping me with my stupid question
thats all folks

We're just getting started actually! Waiting on alot of others to chime in unless you delete your post?...:laugh2:

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

There are no stupid questions here!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

There are no stupid questions here!

I have strong opinions based on some prior experiences,but I don't really want it to beome a heated debate....Everyone has their own opinions also..

 

[drpietrzak]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

what is so good about point to point handwiring, what makes it better than just popping in a microchip. don't make fun of me for this stupid question, ive played mesas and they sound great! just pondering this stupid question about point to point wiring

Repair and mods. The rest is hype to me.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

No worries, what I was meaning that no questions are stupid, how can we learn without trying and asking?

So there are no stupid questions.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

Repair and mods. The rest is hype to me.

Everytime I have to pull all the pots on a JCM 800 to lift that stupid pcb up and unsrew the pcb on a Marshall,I swear at them.....

The PTP amps look so awesome and what a pleasure to mod and repair....For sure the PTP amp is king of that...:dance:

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

No worries, what I was meaning that no questions are stupid, how can we learn without trying and asking?

So there are no stupid questions.

Rodger that buddy! :smokin:

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

Plus ptp can get really messy and is great fun to unravel...if ones mood can handle it

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

Plus ptp can get really messy and is great fun to unravel...if ones mood can handle it

My first look inside of an old Hiwatt was nothing short of amazing for me though....Almost orgasmic! :laugh2:

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

Old Hiwatts is the way amps should be made hehe
Forever last they will..yes yes.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

Old Hiwatts is the way amps should be made hehe
Forever last they will..yes yes.

As great as the earlier version Hiwatts were(and still are)they had their own issues...

 

[B Bent]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

The Nomad is PCB. I should know I just sold one last week!! BTW it sounded great!!

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

The Nomad is PCB. I should know I just sold one last week!! BTW it sounded great!!

Figured as much....Mesa hasn't done anything other than pcb for many many years....Some of these guys in the stores just really have no clue what they are selling and it's a shame really! Nothing worse than just really wrong info!:smack:

 

[Curly]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

the techs I've known learned their craft working on PTP amps, and really aren't too crazy about working on PCBs

as for tone, there are good sounding PTP amps and good sounding PCB amps ... I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me PCB boards have capacitance (or some other affect), but whether it can be measured, or more importantly, heard is another matter

so Rid summed it up well - PTP is easy to work on, the tone differences are debatable.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

PCB has its strong points. They are used to build exceptionally advanced circuits, things with lots of effect loops and channels that PTP would be a nightmare for. I consider stuff like Bogner as the perfect PCB design. That's one PCB amp that will never break down.

I prefer PTP because they are simply easier to work on and that's a great quality to have in case something ever does break down. I'm not sure if they sound better, they probably sound the same as PCB, but I like the simplicity of it.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

As long as the amp's design is a great one, the differences are minimal. There's no disputing that P to P amps are built better, and can generally take more abuse. The biggest difference is the sonic detail and harmonic content.
P to P amps generally have a bigger and richer sound, which engulfs a room, whereas the PCB amp sounds a little narrower, but has the ability to cram more features into the same space.....they're done this way because large amp companies are concerned with mass production for the lowest dollars.

My two main amps are a PCB Bogner and P to P Matchless. They both have their own sound, but I find more focused gain in PCB amps, and a more 'wide open' and articulate sound out of P to P.

You can't argue with guys like Gearjoneser, but I have played both Matchless and Bogner, NOT as much as you - but there is no way the PCB issue matters. The SHIVA can fill any room as well as the next amp. Budda and Bogner are always my PCB arguments. I have ALSO found that PTP amps are amazingly built and tend to have the great tone that HANDCRAFTING brings. HOWEVER, Bogners prove to me it doesn't matter.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

I guess I made my point rather clumsily.....only because this topic bores me, I guess. I think what I failed to say was that one main difference is a by-product of mass production. If you're cutting cost by making PCB boards by the thousands, chances are you're also cutting corners by using cheaper components. So StratDeluxer and RID are right, it's not really the differences between how they're wired, so much as it's the quality of WHAT they're wiring together. In general, expensive P to P amps are using top notch components......open up a Crate or Carvin, and you'll see that it's not the PCB hurting the tone....it's the tiny radio-quality components.

As far as reliability, take a cheap amp and push it 3 miles over a cobblestone road, then do the same thing with a HiWatt or Matchless. Tubes aside, the HiWatt and Matchless won't be weakened in the least.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

there is PTP done right and wrong. there are PCB's done right and wrong. biggest difference to me is in comparison, its harder to screw up a PTP amp.

Alec points out that most of us use turret boards or terminal strips. that is not truly point to point in the classic sense. but since most buyers consider any handwired amp to be PTP, we all sort of just go with the flow.

guys like bogner and rivera use high quality circuit board materials and they hold up to heat and abuse. then there's the crates and fenders out there that use cheap, thin boards, with traces too close to each other etc.,.

I'd take PtP any day simply because fixing one is so damn easy.

 

[chcjunior]

Re: whats so good about point to point handwired

I was looking into a Voodoo Hex right before I got my Knucklehead 55. There was a delay on getting the amp as they're converting over from PTP to PCB. I believe they want to jump up to the next level of sales. It'll be interesting to see how the transition develops, as Voodoo has such a great reputation for quality.