Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

The digital and analouge thing is about bandwidth, a turntable can reproduce frequencies no cd-player can do yet.
It would demand a huge amount of processing power, making it a very expensive player.
And then it would probally not sound the same as the mechanics are extremely different from each other.
Then again at other stages it is the lo-fi thing that people dig with analouge tech.
Between analouge and digital delays, to use an example, the only really difference is that you can sometimes hear the clock from the analouge circuit when you bend a string...tiny whistles like birdsinging, but other than that you can simply filter your way out of it, just use a good sounding intrigated digital chip instead of a BBD chip, and I'll challenge anybody who can hear any difference!
Then there is the more tricky modulation effects, that will take some deeper effort to make the digital sound as pleasing as a good analouge one, actually I doubt that it can be done, I think that the digital ones should go and create their own sound footprint instead, because you can get some very cool sounds that way too, if you stop fooling around with the emulations that just sounds like well emulations.
As for solidstate amps...I think it can be done to make them sound very good.
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

aleclee said:
Are you implying that an amp like a DRRI has digital parts in it or that computers were used to design & build the amp?

First of, I have not taken every RI amp apart and verify that they all use digital technology. That's why I said a lot of them..., but not all of them.

They do use computer softwares to design electronic circuits but that's not what I mean digital.

If you have a printed circuit in your amp, it is most likely digital technology. You don't need a computer to go digital. All you need is a processing chip which can be smaller than the size of a grain of rice. If you use a noise gate or effect pedal that is also digital.
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

flank said:
but bottomline, it all sounds good........ the pickyness and in depthness of these internet guitar forums tend to perpetuate things, and if you read countless reviews/posts all day, trends seem to occur, and mindsets are implanted....... but if you go out and experience it yourself, you will probably find it to all be a different, and in my case, not being too picky of a person, i find some of the nitpicking of tone journeymen to be a little over the top, but thats my opinion

bottom line again Todd, if it sounds good, then it is good
flank-
I agree completely. If it sounds good play it.
I'm not the one making the statements that "my vintage is better than RI" or "that RI just isn't like my good ol' vintage amp". Others around here make those statements, I just wanted to figure out why guys say that kind of stuff.

I have a theory about first experiences. Whether its you first guitar or first amp or first car or the first person that trains you at a new job, That first experience becomes the benchmark against which following experiences are judged. An artists first album provides the setting for comparing the rest of the artists work.

Amps clearly fall into that kind of catagory.
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

flank said:
but bottomline, it all sounds good........ the pickyness and in depthness of these internet guitar forums tend to perpetuate things, and if you read countless reviews/posts all day, trends seem to occur, and mindsets are implanted....... but if you go out and experience it yourself, you will probably find it to all be a different, and in my case, not being too picky of a person, i find some of the nitpicking of tone journeymen to be a little over the top, but thats my opinion

bottom line again Todd, if it sounds good, then it is good

Slammed it down tight, flank. People get too much GAS and get frenzied about the advice these forums give like vintage this and vintage that. I mean, there's alot of good advice around here, but if i took it all as if it were "Tone Gospel", i'd stop listening to the amps for myself.
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

Yeah it really does not take much but a good set of ears, and some knob twirling to get workable sounds!
And standart of the rack stuff, can be modified for very few coins into something really good.
Back when I was playing small clubs and such I just used normal stuff, the crucial part was just my speakers, always used my Celestions, either the 30w ones or the weaker 20 if it required low volumes.
Nothing fancy for normal small jobs.
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

Quencho092 said:
Slammed it down tight, flank. People get too much GAS and get frenzied about the advice these forums give like vintage this and vintage that. I mean, there's alot of good advice around here, but if i took it all as if it were "Tone Gospel", i'd stop listening to the amps for myself.
Oh yes, i think i have something here that you guys want....yes, its a sweet JBL D130F !!!!!

280 plus shipping! And yes, it is an original 60's model, none of that orange frame stuff. Maybe ill sell you both, for 550!
There's something ironic about this post and your sig in the same place together! :laugh2:
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

Because at the time, designs were simple. More you add features, more you may run into problems.

ALOT of modern era amps are incredible (Matchless, Dr.Z, Victoria, Carr, etc.) because they dont have an Accounting Dept cutting cost and bashing concept design.
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

What's interesting, is this is a period of some sort of generational gap.

Up until recently 70's Les Pauls were overly heavy, pancake bodied, thick plastic-y finished, big headstocked duds you had to play with because they were the only LPs available- unless you wanted to drop almost a grand to get a 50's Special...Now they're getting to be somewhat prized. Go figure- I still think they're generally duds. Same thing with 70's Fenders- big headstocked Strats, three bolted, thick poly finished, heavy duds.

Since I've been lurking here I've been seeing people referring to JCM800s as a target for tone and being considered "vintage." I understand that "vintage" doesn't necessarily have to do with age. For example, in 2002 Gibson changed the design of the headstock on the LP Standard back to the original "small headstock" size. For those that like that big ol' boatpaddle headstock, those three year old guitars would be considered "vintage."

Maybe the vintage thing isn't your thing, maybe new stuff is your thing, maybe you haven't really settled on "your thing" yet. "Your thing" will change over time. Dismissing vintage or old stuff as just being "hype" completely ignores that there are differences in materials and construction as well as any favorable changes brought on by age.
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

The Golden Boy said:
There's something ironic about this post and your sig in the same place together! :laugh2:

I was talking about the TONE of vintage gear, not the resale value. It's the same reason why many people prefer buying Gibson over other copies-they could easily sell close to the price you bought it for. JBL's from the 60's are highly collectable and sought after speakers that sound great as well.

Are they worth the price considering that you could easily sell it again at a profit? For sure. A used weber california could quite easily get very close to an acutual D130f in tone, but im selling my ORIGINAL for only 280, and you could easily re-sell it on ebay in upwards of 300 bucks. Try that with a used Weber!

It's worth if it you want to enjoy the tone of a great speaker and have the option to sell it for more than you bought it-you're getting paid to rent it so to speak. :fing25: :cool3:
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

Can an amp be built in 2005 that is close to the '65 DR or '59 Bassman or Marshall or whatever... without digital components/circuitry and without NOS?

What amp maker is producing the Antiquity-like line of amps. Building new amps the old way? Does such comany exist? Is that Rivera and Victoria and Matchless and Dr Z...or Scott_F's Franklin's?
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

The Golden Boy said:
You mean '05. :newangel:


The 05 cuda is the dodge charger. It only has 300hp.

The 70's Hemi cuda had far north of 425hp (Dont believe for a second that they were telling the truth on the number of horse power.)



Newer doesnt = better. Older cars wern't restricted by emissions. Even tho the tech is much better now, laws are much tigher.


*Cough* OFF THE ****ING TOPIC *Cough*
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

Rid said:
The digital and analouge thing is about bandwidth, a turntable can reproduce frequencies no cd-player can do yet.
It would demand a huge amount of processing power, making it a very expensive player.

Back in the day when CD's first came out, we readily gave up the vinyl for CD. There was a crispness and dynamic about the CD that we accepted, no questions asked...good by to that nasty hiss. Good by to record cleaning and ZeroStat guns and replacing the stylus.

...and ya, the '70 would need points changed every other day and timing reset and carborator adjusted and rebuilt regularly and... the '05 you could drive and just forget about that stuff.
 
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Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

Guitar Toad said:
Can an amp be built in 2005 that is close to the '65 DR or '59 Bassman or Marshall or whatever... without digital components/circuitry and without NOS?

Well, since you asked, I happened to have some old schematic diagrams. I went back to check, and there they were, the Fender Model Bassman - 50. It has 4 inputs, two bass instruments and two normal, three 7025, 2 12AT7 and 2 6L6GC tubes, 3 transformers with 2 8 ohm speakers. The Bassman - 100 takes 2 7025, 1 12AT7 and 4 6L6Gc tubes, 3 transformers and 2 8 ohm speakers. The components should still be available and there is no reason why they can not be built.
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

Fender has amp schematics on their web site too. What's to stop us from building amps?
I have a soldering iron:). Let's get into the amp business;)
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

I do a lot of soldering as my hobby but I really love music more. I think I'll stay put playing guitar and keyboard for now. The schematics on the Fender web site are patented. You can wire the amps for your own use, but they will come after you if you make money out of it.
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

Yes, and it would be much easier to just buy an amp.
Do I hear a Blues Deluxe RI or DRRI calling my name? Or is that a Mesa Boogie F-30 calling for me?
 
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Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

a DRRI just called me.......said he was looking for GuitarToad
 
Re: Why are Vintage amps better than RI?

Although I don't hear it calling my name. I do have the schematics for the Deluxe Reverb by the way, and also a diagram for making a simple reverb unit but I have not check out if the components are available.
 
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