Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

[The Convert]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

"I doubt the average Epi owner is going to spend $300-$350 on a set of Gibson aftermarket PU's, when that's close to what they spent for the guitar"

I don't know what the average Epi owner thinks, but I did exactly this. My first Epi LP I got used for under $250 and I loved it so much (and loved the sound of the 57/+s so much) that I doubled my investment to make a guitar that I absolutely still love for about $500 total. I've worked a long time playing and selling guitars, and I wouldn't waste my money on a Gibson LP certainly under a Studio-- and for me the Studio is just a bad value. The Gibson Les Paul line doesn't sound very good to me (unmodified) until the Traditional series, which again I think is a bad value at over $2k.

I've used SDs, Fenders, Dimarzios and others, and each company can make a good pickup. Hell I could have put some cheap GuitarFetish pups in that Epi, but it wouldn't have been the same. I could have saved maybe $100 and gone SD, and it would have sounded good, but not exactly what I wanted. The nice thing about a budget guitar is that, when the stakes are low, you can risk more and be more creative.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

Guitarists aren't necessarily the best informed bunch. I had a friend who bought a Les Paul with a 59 set and he insisted that the person who he brought it from put the original pickups back in the guitar because he wanted that "classic Gibson sound". When I asked him why he wanted those pickups he said that he didn't want any "stupid metal pickups because he played blues not metal". Yep nothing screams classic Gibson tones like a 500T and 496R set.

 

[The Convert]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

Guitarists aren't necessarily the best informed bunch.

Indeed! Thousands of people play fat strats with Fender humbuckers and think it's ok!

 

[Laimac]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

I unashamedly identify with and agree with this. Now, I think it might be overstated that every Epi owner really wants a Gibson...for the same price sure, but my main Epi LP is (for me) a better sounding instrument than a Gibson 3x its price. I personally don't think any instrument that isn't hand made just for me is worth $2200+.

I'll also say that of my Epis, only 1 has Gibson aftermarket pups in it. It is a generalization that every Epi owner is a Gibson brand slave. Maybe some. To me they're just options at reaching the sound I want for the budget I have to spend.

Just to avoid any misunderstanding, i do not think and never said that every Epi owner wants a Gibson, nor that Epis are bad guitars (I believe they are great). What I am strongly convinced of is that many (50%?) Epi buyers would have liked a Gibson USA but either cannot afford it, or just do not want that much dough in what is mostly name-buying (quality is there but not proportional to price). And I have seen many (prospective) Epi buyers looking into the various Gibson pups (I even got criticized for taking the 57 out of my LP because "they are just the best" - well not to my ears and those of many). Now I believe even more of them would do so if an upgrade was cheaper and Gibson would then sell less of their pricier guitars.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

My first Epi LP I got used for under $250 and I loved it so much (and loved the sound of the 57/+s so much) that I doubled my investment to $500.

I couldn't get the '57's out of my Epi LP Std Pro fast enough. Of the 2 dozen PAF's I've owned over the years (counting neck and bridge models), they stand out as the worst take on PAF's on the market. As Kojak's pointed out, Gibson keeps changing the specs on them to reduce costs. BB's sound better, but are used sparingly, whereas Gibson's put '57's in most of their guitars at one point or another. That just sends more customers to Duncan and DiMarzio.

 

[B2D]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

Because they're wound on the original Leesona winder that was used at the Gibson factory in the 50s that made the pickups in 50's Les Pauls. That machine takes a lot of upkeep and they have to build that cost into the pickup, don'tcha know.

Oh Jeez.

Wait... I'm sorry. That's not true.

The truth is that Duncan owns that machine and they make '59s, Seth Lovers and Pearly Gates and maybe a few other models on it. All day.




In all honesty I dunno. When I was working at a music store no one ever bought them. Ever. Everyone bought Duncans, EMGs, and the occasional DiMarzio for aftermarket pickups.

 

[B2D]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

Because Henry J. personally farts into each coil, which is then immediately dipped in wax to seal the... mojo.

Ewwwwwww :laugh2:

 

[Aceman]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

Because…..Gibson!


not that that is a good reason

 

[The Convert]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

Just to avoid any misunderstanding, i do not think and never said that every Epi owner wants a Gibson, nor that Epis are bad guitars (I believe they are great). What I am strongly convinced of is that many (50%?) Epi buyers would have liked a Gibson USA but either cannot afford it, or just do not want that much dough in what is mostly name-buying (quality is there but not proportional to price). And I have seen many (prospective) Epi buyers looking into the various Gibson pups (I even got criticized for taking the 57 out of my LP because "they are just the best" - well not to my ears and those of many). Now I believe even more of them would do so if an upgrade was cheaper and Gibson would then sell less of their pricier guitars.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Rschan.Ziar]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

Because Henry J. personally farts into each coil, which is then immediately dipped in wax to seal the... mojo.

yeah that's it I think :nervous: XD

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

No seriously, why? Burstbuckers are $175 and an Angus Young signature model is $190! You could get your own custom model at Seymour Duncan for less. Why are they so pricey?

Pricing is based on what the market will bear and protecting profit margin in the price. Supply, demand, etc.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

Indeed! Thousands of people play fat strats with Fender humbuckers and think it's ok!

Bahahaha. This. Fender singles are useable, but their humbuckers are terrible.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

 

[The Convert]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

...they stand out as the worst take on PAF's on the market.

So, congrats on stating an opinion (subjective) like it's a fact (objective). I've a box of PAFs too. Sounds like we have different experiences and taste. Fancy that.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

One interesting (at least to me it was..) is I got an Epi Les Paul Tribute Plus, and it comes stock with Gibson 57 pups in it. Based on past experience with Gibson pups, I figured from the get go, pickup swap happening asap... Oddly, everytime I play it, I actually enjoy it.. I DO have to roll the tone control off just alittle, but otherwise Im trying hard to find fault.. Im SURE... Knowing me, Ill swap them.. I have the mentality that says: If it sounds this good with these, it'll sound better with..... But for now, Im surprisingly enjoying it. MAYBE, its because the guitar comes with upgraded pots and such then the standard fare?? Dunno..

 

[The Convert]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

One interesting (at least to me it was..) Oddly, everytime I play it, I actually enjoy it.. I DO have to roll the tone control off just alittle, but otherwise Im trying hard to find fault.

This points to an interesting and invisible element in this discussion. When you mentioned rolling off tone, I thought, sure for some things...and then it hit me.

I play clean jazz with this guitar. I play classic rock (Zep to Boston) on this guitar. I've got other guitars with different builds for metal, pop, blues, and some signature sounds.

Talking in absolutes about a pickup is like saying a 60 watt bulb is bad. Well, it'd be a terrible bright nightlight, and it wouldn't light a stadium, but you can read a book by it just fine.

Here is my bold statement: With VERY few exceptions (and these are when a new product simply doesn't work), I don't think there is such a thing as a "bad" musical instrument or component. It's far too complex and subjective.

Now, if you get detailed, you could say that a Broadcaster Tele is a rotten choice as a workhorse guitar for James Hetfield, but even that leaves a little room for conversation..."probably not Metallica, but Billy Squire played Teles and he was legit. it's not the best metal guitar probably, but it probably isn't just for the stereotypes we first conjure."

Regardless of the example, I think that some of us are very dialed in to a certain kind of sound and that's fine. Others of us think of a PAF and think of it in terms of it's specific application historically. That's fine. But for me, and I'd bet a lot of people, it's a tool. If I can use it to build the thing I need to play the songs in a way a like, then it's a great pickup. Since it's simply the opinion I hold, there's not arguing it.

So if you think it's junk, cool. If you think it's the best ever, cool. Neither are objectively wrong, because it isn't an objective question.

Do they cost too much? Yes. Yes. Yes. Everything Gibson makes costs too much. Also, everything every corporation makes costs too much. The balance between product price inflation to maximize profits in a commercial market and the labor value stolen from workers here and abroad create a ubiquitous situation that leaves every person (wage worker) not just underpaid, but having to pay artificially high prices for the things you need--this is where company profit comes from. Sometimes this can be the very thing you are paid to make, and it's known as alienation, but I guess we're gonna wait another four years before we consider talking about that again. ;-)

 

[leevc5]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

Two points regarding #57:
1. What does a PAF sound like or what would be the characteristics that would have it categorized as a PAF (not try to be a smart bass, I really want to know).
2. I would contend that Gibson guitars are not over priced. The basis of this is that they maintain their value far better than most other guitars. I have a Les Paul Studio I bought in 1990 and I could sell it tomorrow for 30 percent more than what I paid for it.
Just an opinion from Pyongtaek.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

Two points regarding #57:
1. What does a PAF sound like or what would be the characteristics that would have it categorized as a PAF (not try to be a smart bass, I really want to know).
2. I would contend that Gibson guitars are not over priced. The basis of this is that they maintain their value far better than most other guitars. I have a Les Paul Studio I bought in 1990 and I could sell it tomorrow for 30 percent more than what I paid for it.
Just an opinion from Pyongtaek.

Interesting that was post #57

1. PAF is two butyrate bobbins, long (2.5”) Alnico 2 or A3 or A4 or A5 magnet, #42 plain enamel wire, wind pattern not consistent, nor were coils balanced in number of winds, overall pickups varied 7-9k ohm resistance, nickel covers (earliest were stainless steel). Last years of PAF production had smaller (2.37”) Alnico 5 magnets.

2. Rock on

 

[leevc5]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

Interesting that was post #57

1. PAF is two butyrate bobbins, long (2.5”) Alnico 2 or A3 or A4 or A5 magnet, #42 plain enamel wire, wind pattern not consistent, nor were coils balanced in number of winds, overall pickups varied 7-9k ohm resistance, nickel covers (earliest were stainless steel). Last years of PAF production had smaller (2.37”) Alnico 5 magnets.

2. Rock on

Thank you. That is the first time ANYBODY actually stood up and described what a P A F is. Based on your definition I think it would be safe to conclude that PAF does not represent any specific tone. It is a historical term.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

PAF is two butyrate bobbins, long (2.5”) Alnico 2 or A3 or A4 or A5 magnet, #42 plain enamel wire, wind pattern not consistent, nor were coils balanced in number of winds, overall pickups varied 7-9k ohm resistance, nickel covers (earliest were stainless steel). Last years of PAF production had smaller (2.37”) Alnico 5 magnets.

Some original PAF's sound better than others, because of the random windings & coil resistances, and how they were paired up. I'd speculate '57 Classics were based off of a less-than-spectacular example.

 

[The Convert]

Re: Why do Gibson pickups cost so much?

1. PAF is two butyrate bobbins, long (2.5”) Alnico 2 or A3 or A4 or A5 magnet, #42 plain enamel wire, wind pattern not consistent, nor were coils balanced in number of winds, overall pickups varied 7-9k ohm resistance, nickel covers (earliest were stainless steel). Last years of PAF production had smaller (2.37”) Alnico 5 magnets.

I think this is true in the same way as "Picasso's Guernica is a painting on canvas stretched over a wood frame measuring 3.49 meters by 7.76 meters expressed in oil paint." Yes, it's true, but it also isn't exactly a complete definition either.

You've described its construction, but as we know from decades of trying, just repeating the construction does not guarantee the same result where it counts: tone. Otherwise, they are very authentic paperweights. This is why I think most people have been discussing how these pickups sound, and not their precise construction.