Why do you buy new instead of used?

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

Being able to get what you want with no compromises.

It would take years to find the right axe with the right weight and tone, in the right color, etc. on the used market

 

[blueman335]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

It would take years to find the right axe with the right weight and tone, in the right color, etc. on the used market

Either you're way too picky, or I'm too flexible. I can find good guitars without a problem, and with a couple PU and/or mag swaps, I can dial it in. I always replace the PU's, no matter what, and until I get it home, there's no way to know how the final sound will come out.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

Either you're way too picky, or I'm too flexible. I can find good guitars without a problem, and with a couple PU and/or mag swaps, I can dial it in. I always replace the PU's, no matter what, and until I get it home, there's no way to know how the final sound will come out.

While very valid, I come from the viewpoint that there is only so much a good setup and different pickups and hardware can save. The basis of the perfect axe is perfect wood and perfect worksmanship, and on the used market the chance of scoring a guitar with either (or rather with both fully intact) is lower than with a new axe as a rule of thumb

 

[Thurisaz]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

Blueman-- It's about the town, and the availability/selection, not being picky.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

While very valid, I come from the viewpoint that there is only so much a good setup and different pickups and hardware can save. The basis of the perfect axe is perfect wood and perfect worksmanship, and on the used market the chance of scoring a guitar with either (or rather with both fully intact) is lower than with a new axe as a rule of thumb

I think a lot of very good guitars get sold because the original owner didn't have it set up right, or didn't have the right PU's in it. I've gotten used guitars that had the PU's an inch under the strings, or were simply in need of a quarter turn on the truss rod. I think there's a lot of very good used guitars out there, and getting them for half price makes it a bargain that's hard to pass up. For the guys that refuse to do their own set ups or PU's swaps, it will be much harder to find a great used guitar. But for those of us who will put an hour into a used guitar (and you can easily see most of the stuff that needs to be done), you have a significantly larger pool of used guitars to choose from.

 

[Thurisaz]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

I agree with Zerberus, personally. In my town, the only good stuff is basically leeched by a guy who essentially sells low end crap at a closer to new price so he can have his stuff free. [IE, the very few Mesa's, Marshall's, Jackson's, etc that come through]. So once he takes everything worth pondering [most of his stuff is beginner at best], there ain't **** left.


In Florida, yeah. In Timbuktubumfuktegypt, Washington, no.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

Blueman-- It's about the town, and the availability/selection, not being picky.

You can still find what you want online, if you ask more specific questions, like weight, neck dimensions, detailed pics, sound clips, etc. If you expect to get a great used guitar locally, that only happens to the small part of the population that lives in a major metropolis. The majority of us are scattered around the country. No big cities near me, and I'm not handicapped by that.

To me, I think too many players insist on playing a guitar first, and pass up some of the better guitars (new or used) because the intonation's off, the set up is terrible, the strings are rusty, PU's don't compliment the wood, etc. When you demo a guitar that 'sings' to you, you're picking the guitar with the best set up and PU's that happen to match the wood the best. Since both of those things are variables, it's way too easy to pass up a great guitar that needs 30 or 60 minutes of basic tweaking, to possibly become the best sounding and playing guitar in the store. There's plenty of posts here questioning the old addage that the acoustic tone of an electric is indicative of the amplified sound (I personally believe the relationship is loose at best). To me, demo-ing a guitar can easily steer you away from the best ones. I'd rather get a used guitar online.

 

[Thurisaz]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

Good points blueman, but I don't try fleabayers at all. Also, I think the acoustic tone has a very big effect on the amplified tone, because the pickups have to transfer the basic principles of the acoustic tone, and if the acoustic tone bites [lack of sustain, muddy chords, etc.] then it will at the very least be a big fat pain trying to make the amplified tone make up for it.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

Good points blueman, but I don't try fleabayers at all. Also, I think the acoustic tone has a very big effect on the amplified tone, because the pickups have to transfer the basic principles of the acoustic tone, and if the acoustic tone bites [lack of sustain, muddy chords, etc.] then it will at the very least be a big fat pain trying to make the amplified tone make up for it.

One of my best sounding electrics, acoustically, was one of the most difficult to get to sound good amplified. I've seen other posts here saying similar things. Your ears just can't hear all the subtle nuances & frequencies of an unplugged electric guitar. PU's will trasmit part of the acoustic tone, not all of it, and there's many other components in the sound signal that color the tone, like pots, cord, amp, tubes, speaker, etc. Even room acoustics change the sound.

Odds are a professionally set up guitar will almost always be chosen over one with rusty strings, intonation off, a slight back bow in the neck, overly high action, wrong string gauge for you, and the PU's too low. 10 minutes and that guitar that feels & sounds substandard, could 'sing.' I think most guys that demo a guitar get a warm fuzzy feeling based on easily changed variables, and while they get a good guitar, they rule out many others that need a few minutes TLC to sound great. To me, demos mislead as often as they guide. If all the guitars in a store had great set ups, and PU's that matched the wood well, then you could tell a lot by demos, but most guitars in music stores don't fall in that category, regardless of price.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

If I wanted a MIM Strat, I could find 10 by sundown, but if I want a singlecut with P90s, or a Tele with a Mini-hum neck and routed for a middle pup, guess where I have to go --- a sto'.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

If I wanted a MIM Strat, I could find 10 by sundown, but if I want a singlecut with P90s, or a Tele with a Mini-hum neck and routed for a middle pup, guess where I have to go --- a sto'.

+1. The rare stuff isn't likely to show up very often in the used market, and it may go for a premium. Sometimes new is your only real option.

 

[Kac]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

both of my current electric guitars were purchased new.

I seem to have a better relationship with a guitar when I buy it new and am more likely to keep it longer or forever... I don't have the same feelings or attachments to a used guitar.

They're also in better shape and I know the mods done to the guitars are mods done by me and no-one else.

 

[Thurisaz]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

One of my best sounding electrics, acoustically, was one of the most difficult to get to sound good amplified. I've seen other posts here saying similar things. Your ears just can't hear all the subtle nuances & frequencies of an unplugged electric guitar. PU's will trasmit part of the acoustic tone, not all of it, and there's many other components in the sound signal that color the tone, like pots, cord, amp, tubes, speaker, etc. Even room acoustics change the sound.

Odds are a professionally set up guitar will almost always be chosen over one with rusty strings, intonation off, a slight back bow in the neck, overly high action, wrong string gauge for you, and the PU's too low. 10 minutes and that guitar that feels & sounds substandard, could 'sing.' I think most guys that demo a guitar get a warm fuzzy feeling based on easily changed variables, and while they get a good guitar, they rule out many others that need a few minutes TLC to sound great. To me, demos mislead as often as they guide. If all the guitars in a store had great set ups, and PU's that matched the wood well, then you could tell a lot by demos, but most guitars in music stores don't fall in that category, regardless of price.

Well, when I try a guitar out, I put my ear up to the guitar as I hit a few big chords and a few dissonant chords. I also see how it sounds when tapping and sweeping. If it doesn't sound 'clear' [as opposed to a more muffled or muddy tone], then it doesn't make the cut for me. Then I plug it in and turn up the amp and play around with the controls of the guitar.

I also take a little screwdriver to adjust pickup heights and I've never had anyone at a store complain that I was putting it closer to where it should be.

That said, I have more love for a guitar I bought new and had the opportunity to remove from the packaging.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

You can still find what you want online, if you ask more specific questions, like weight, neck dimensions, detailed pics, sound clips, etc. If you expect to get a great used guitar locally, that only happens to the small part of the population that lives in a major metropolis. The majority of us are scattered around the country. No big cities near me, and I'm not handicapped by that.

Maybe you've had better luck than I have. The last time I trusted an online seller to deliver me a good sounding axe, I had bought a custom shop Gibson from Center City Music in San Diego (sight unseen) and a disappointment would be an understatement.

I learned something at that point. Anybody will sell you anything, regardless of what criteria you're looking for with an axe. Play when you can before buying and you'll atleast know what you're getting. Taking chances royally sucks whether it's a new or a used axe being bought sight unseen.

 

[Jeroen]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

I rarely buy new, simply because very few stores have decent lefthanded instruments in stock here. The only exception among my current guitars and basses is my 2008 Rickenbacker 4003. I was able to buy that new in the UK in January, when the British Pound was at an all time low compared to the Euro (I know some Americans tend to call it the 'Euro-Dollar', but it is really just called the Euro ). I got the Ric at 2/3 of what it would cost me here. Oh, and two cheap acoustics. All my other guitars and basses were bought secondhand, either on eBay or on Dutch advertisement sites.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

The only guitars that I can remember buying brandy new were my second guitar, which was a beginner guitar, and a custom made strat that was great when I got it, then kinda fell apart over time. Every other guitar I've bought was used. I love'em used. I'm in no way shape or form knocking guys that buy only new because we're all different and that's what makes things interesting, but for me, I love saving money and feeling like I got a great deal. Same with amps, pedals etc. If I get burned, well the money I've saved over the past thirty years by buying and trading used gear more than makes up for it I suppose, right?

Plus, without you guys who buy new, I would never get my used stuff, lol.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

Plus, without you guys who buy new, I would never get my used stuff, lol.

And by us buying used gear, other guys are able to afford more new gear. The circle is unbroken.

 

[mudpuppy]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

Blueman may have a point about the limitations of judging solids by their uplugged sound. With semi-hollow or full hollow, I think you can get a better read on what a guitar's potential is going to be. I also agree about the limitations in test-driving an axe. The biggest pitfall I've had is re. type and condition of strings.

I've never discovered any serious intonnation problems on guitars test driven, but if I did I don't know that I'd be 100% about correcting it. I seem to remember reading a review on Epi Dot Studios where the bridge posts were so far off that the tune-o-matics didn't have enough adjustment.

As far as buying a used instrument that had major problems, I think I'd take a pass & go to Warmouth, StewMac, & Wymore and build what I REALLY want.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

Blueman may have a point about the limitations of judging solids by their uplugged sound. With semi-hollow or full hollow, I think you can get a better read on what a guitar's potential is going to be. I also agree about the limitations in test-driving an axe. The biggest pitfall I've had is re. type and condition of strings.

I've never discovered any serious intonnation problems on guitars test driven, but if I did I don't know that I'd be 100% about correcting it. I seem to remember reading a review on Epi Dot Studios where the bridge posts were so far off that the tune-o-matics didn't have enough adjustment.

As far as buying a used instrument that had major problems, I think I'd take a pass & go to Warmouth, StewMac, & Wymore and build what I REALLY want.

+1. Old strings with no life in them aren't going to resonate very well. Combine that with the intonation being off and a slight (but easily-fixed) bow in the neck that causes fret buzz (that also ruins resonance); that guitar will sound & play awful. You'd never choose it. 10 minutes of minor maintenance and it may be a winner.

No you shouldn't have to do any tweaking to a new guitar, but if you want to act like royalty & don't believe you should have to lower yourself & do any actual work, then sure, get the one that's already set up right & has PU's that match the wood well. If you're a hands-on kind of guy, like most of us here, then you won't pass up a great guitar just because it wasn't fresh from a luthier's bench. I don't expect any guitar, at any price, to be perfect for my needs.

It's not just Epi Dot Studios that can have the bridge post-holes drilled in the wrong spot. Although not common on most models, it can happen on any entry level or mid-priced import. You can either get a Nashville-style tune-o-matic which gives the saddles more travel space, or redrill new holes, after filling the old ones with wood-filler. When buying a guitar check the intonation by playing open strings to the 12th fret. If the 12th fret is sharp to the open, you need some room to move the saddle back, which is especially a concern on the low E & G strings. And if it's flat at the 12th fret to the open, you need some room to move the saddle forward, especially on the D & high E. If the saddle is moved all the way already, and the intonation is way off on a string or two, there's a problem. This takes 10 seconds to figure out.

BTW, there have been some posts here on what a DIY Warmouth costs when you total up everything, and they were $1,200 to $1,500. Start off with several hundred dollars for a body and you think a couple hundred more & you're done...Ha! And resale on them is depressing. You're usually better off getting a used guitar & doing a little tweaking.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Why do you buy new instead of used?

But what are you really evaluating at a music store? Which wood happens to sound best with the stock PU's? Which guitar was set up & intonated best? How much did the store amp influence the sound, and your decision? There's posts here from some of the knowledgeable members that say the acoustic sound and resonance has little relationship to a guitar's amplified sound (my experience bears this out).

I think some very good guitars get passed over at music stores, because the PU's don't match the wood very well, the intonation is off, the action's terrible, the PU's are too low, the strings are rusty, neck needs a minor truss rod adjustment, etc. This is all easy stuff to do, and no, you shouldn't have to do it, but you could miss one of the best guitars in the store. Some of these rejects may end up sounding better than any of the others with a good set up & maybe a PU or magnet swap. Personally, I have no idea what a guitar will sound like, or play like, until I do some basic work to it. Maybe a certain PU will just shine in that guitar, but you don't know that in the store. If you want a guitar that needs no work what-so-ever, fine, the music store A/B trials are fine. But I never buy a guitar thinking that it's already perfect. Most can be improved on (just look at how many Gibson, PRS, & Fender owners here swap PU's).

My boss has a Fender Mexican strat that he got from Salvation Army. He never played it since it was just horrible, unplayable and sounded aweful. I told him to give me a crack at it.

I got it, I cleaned years of grime off the rosewood fretboard and oiled it. Added a little krazy glue to a low nut slot. Adjusted the truss rod on a severely bowed neck, and swapped the pickups for an EMG DG-20 set.

Afterwards he didn't believe it was the same guitar- it sounded like a $1500 guitar