Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

[baritone]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

Most of us visit these forums because we are geaheads &/or tinkerers- just as much as we are musicians. The original post provides an excellent jumping-off point for us to share our opinions on what drives us to keep switching pickups, tubes, bridges, magnets, nuts, speakers, capacitors, & stuff. I'm far from an expert on any topic compared to most people who post here, but in real life, I don't know any guitarist who knows as much about gear as I do. This forum is like a support group for gearheads to sit & have conversations which would bore the hell out of our girlfriends.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

Most of us visit these forums because we are geaheads &/or tinkerers- just as much as we are musicians. The original post provides an excellent jumping-off point for us to share our opinions on what drives us to keep switching pickups, tubes, bridges, magnets, nuts, speakers, capacitors, & stuff. I'm far from an expert on any topic compared to most people who post here, but in real life, I don't know any guitarist who knows as much about gear as I do. This forum is like a support group for gearheads to sit & have conversations which would bore the hell out of our girlfriends.

Fair enough but I still don't think people need their panties wadded up over it. I've already said something to this effect about three times already but here goes one more. The majority of the audience doesn't give a sh!t what gear you use. You don't need the best or even the most ideal gear to be a great band or to be a great musician. Yes, I'm a vague hypocrite because I run some nice gear but I get the point and don't claim that my gear somehow matters. I've used all kinds of different gear on stage from solid state halfstacks, high wattage all tube beasts, rack setups, modelling to a power amp and cabinet, modelling direct to PA and sometimes both and the people who have commented on liking my tone haven't done so because they saw a badge they recognize (sometimes what I was using wasn't even visible). It all comes down to me. If you can afford it and you know what you want, there's nothing wrong with having nice gear at all so long as you don't expect it to do something it can't and don't lose sight of what's important.

Almost every player who complains about how bad the Dual Rectifier is for metal just don't appear to be very good rhythm players who need a lot of compression and something to suck all the low end out to compensate whereas someone with a pick hand like Hetfield has absolutely no problem getting that tight sound out of one stock so the amp becomes less of a factor overall. This whole thing doesn't even apply to you bedroom hobbyists who do it exclusively for the tone, it applies to musicians and more specifically, songwriters. It's the same backwards thinking that make amateur, bedroom studio sound engineers think they would make astonishingly great mixes if only they had a Neve console worth as much as a house and the truth is if they can't get remotely great mixes already with what they have, no amount of analogue console colouring is going to improve anything.

/thread. Go home.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

When you play better you enjoy the sound coming out of the amp. :cool2:

 

[SJ318]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

Mantis,
People talking to each other in a mainly civil tone is never stupid. Beer$ is a little negative on the idea of gear, but still, he he has been there and I like to hear his view.
Talking gear is fun for me. I think football is stupid, but not for football fans, and I would never call them stupid. I just keep it to myself.
So should you.
There are almost 5 pages that prove my point. I really enjoy different perspectives on all things gear.
I am ready for any nasty comment one might make, - expecting one from you, But I don't mean this as a name calling post, I am just saying, this thread is not stupid
for many people, even some of your friends, I bet.
Steve B.

 

[SJ318]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

guitfiddle-
Great image for your "point". By the way, my dad never said guitar, it was always a guitfiddle.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

I have a compatriot who's philosophy has always been "Make crap sound good".
I agree. Then, get stuff that's not crap, and sound even better.
Only you, and your ears, can be the final judge.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

It all seems to boil down to this...make the guitar sing, and the amp has no choice but to sing. You just might like one voice better than another. The audience couldn't care less.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

Mantis,
People talking to each other in a mainly civil tone is never stupid. Beer$ is a little negative on the idea of gear, but still, he he has been there and I like to hear his view.
Talking gear is fun for me. I think football is stupid, but not for football fans, and I would never call them stupid. I just keep it to myself.
So should you.
There are almost 5 pages that prove my point. I really enjoy different perspectives on all things gear.
I am ready for any nasty comment one might make, - expecting one from you, But I don't mean this as a name calling post, I am just saying, this thread is not stupid
for many people, even some of your friends, I bet.
Steve B.

It's all good, the @sshole with a good point is a role I'm always happy to fill. I've abandoned diplomacy, choosing my words carefully and trying to avoid offending sensitive people but it's relieving to see some people understand.

I love all my gear from my little, low wattage tube combos to my flagship amps, rack units and even my modelling units but I always work better when I just get the sound to function for its purpose and then forget about it. Both my sound taken in individually and the band as a whole just sounds better when I'm not obsessing over gear and tone. Things like good songs, purpose and space in the band, stage presence, good turnouts and giving it my all are more important to me. When you're a working musician playing outside your home town, it's costly to move every big expensive piece of gear you have to make your magical tone so it's beneficial for me to be able to have a more compact rig that I can still get useable sounds out of, borrow other people's gear in each town and be able to get a useable sound out of them. Freighting elusive magical tone gear becomes less of a priority.

If I understand Tom Morello's perspective correctly which I think I do because I've read countless interviews of him rephrasing this same philosophy, when he gave up on seeking the 'perfect' tone which was unattainable to him with the gear he had, he just got it to work and never looked back and now that sound is one he can call his own. It's that simple. Some people are taking it way to literally like he needs to throw away his pedalboard if he believes what he says. They can call me stupid all they like but it doesn't change anything.

While recording for my side project, I've done things like slaving a Mesa pre straight into the board, EQing and processing it and ending up with a sound with a scrotum the size of Jupiter. On another occasion I ran a companion fuzz... right into the board and it was perfect for the song. I just wouldn't have even thought of that without my reckless abandon.

 

[Dahla]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

If I understand Tom Morello's perspective correctly which I think I do because I've read countless interviews of him rephrasing this same philosophy, when he gave up on seeking the 'perfect' tone which was unattainable to him with the gear he had, he just got it to work and never looked back and now that sound is one he can call his own. It's that simple. Some people are taking it way to literally like he needs to throw away his pedalboard if he believes what he says. They can call me stupid all they like but it doesn't change anything.

I totally understand his point (and yours), and I've thought about this: the reason I like the guitar players I do, is because of phrasing, note choices, touch and so on. Rarely do I like someone because they have "good tone". Good tone is so highly subjective anyway, it's rediculous. And it only works in context!

So gear doesn't matter, or impact the music you create as a musician. You play with your touch, sense of melody, energy, note choices and vibrato even if it's a Fender or a Chinese amp at the other end of your guitar cable. That's the "great" thing about music. There is no music with gear only.

One here mentioned a mechanic and tools. A mechanic knows how to fix a car with a cheap wrench too. That's what I pay him for. To fix my car. Not his drama queen tendencies that he "can't work without his 2k titanium wrench". Have you ever heard a
mechanic use the words "the tools man... the tools doesn't work for me. I can't FEEL it...!" If your dependant on your gear to feel something and play along to/create/play music, your doing it wrong IMO. Are the the gear a tool for you to expression yourself, or are you the tool? (Lol)

The only debate were I think gear can matter, or make a difference, are in discussions about functionality or reliability. Then the points are valid.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

I totally understand his point (and yours), and I've thought about this: the reason I like the guitar players I do, is because of phrasing, note choices, touch and so on. Rarely do I like someone because they have "good tone". Good tone is so highly subjective anyway, it's rediculous. And it only works in context!

So gear doesn't matter, or impact the music you create as a musician. You play with your touch, sense of melody, energy, note choices and vibrato even if it's a Fender or a Chinese amp at the other end of your guitar cable. That's the "great" thing about music. There is no music with gear only.

One here mentioned a mechanic and tools. A mechanic knows how to fix a car with a cheap wrench too. That's what I pay him for. To fix my car. Not his drama queen tendencies that he "can't work without his 2k titanium wrench". Have you ever heard a
mechanic use the words "the tools man... the tools doesn't work for me. I can't FEEL it...!" If your dependant on your gear to feel something and play along to/create/play music, your doing it wrong IMO. Are the the gear a tool for you to expression yourself, or are you the tool? (Lol)

The only debate were I think gear can matter, or make a difference, are in discussions about functionality or reliability. Then the points are valid.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Precisely. The only guitar sounds I don't like are really obviously grating and functionally bad tones or those that are wildly inappropriate for the style (which is a wide margin as it is as there are no rules to how things should sound but things like so little mids I can't hear the actual notes, trying to play too fast with no definition, standing waves that icepick my eardrums). Bands like Nile, Pantera and The Stooge's Raw Power have tones that convey the energy of the music perfectly no matter how bad the boutique fanatic crowd crows on about how sh!tty they sound.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

I think gear only matters if you don't have experience or know how to use it. That's not a critique of anyone, just a situation I've observed.

To clarify, at one point years back I managed to have the fortunate opportunity to stand in front of a 1968 Marshall 100-watt plexi running full-on into it's matching 4x12 cab in a studio. And having had that experience and memorized that sound, I can now coax nearly that sound out of a whole host of other gear, as near as that gear can get to it. As soon as I hear any rig, I know exactly what knobs need to be turned and where (whether on the guitar or on the amp.) This is directly related to that thread that asked if you can get SRV tones out of a Les Paul. If you have experience making a particular sound, and have that sound in your head, you know how to get it out of other gear as needed.

If I didn't have that experience, the only way I would ever get a Marshall Plexi sound would be to buy one. Then the gear would matter.

 

[SJ318]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

Not sure if this is germane,
But on the topic of gear doesn't matter, I had a kind of "good gear" sound ****ty once. I was lucky (or not) to have played a few months with Eric Burden of the Animals, right after he left (got fired) War.
He had Hendrix's Marshall Stack ( head goosed to 200 watts) and Eric made me play it as it was set up, he claimed he checked all the knobs before he got it after Jimi died.
It was dimed on all knobs, at first I thought, wow, with my 68 LP Custom, I'll kill (this was in the 70's). But this amp that Hendrix had coaxed so many beautiful and angry sounds out of I could not make a single note that sounded good to me.
I tried changing it when Eric was gone, but I could not do it. The tone to my ears was ****.
My Blackface Bassman sounded like Clapton/Mayall and Jimi's Marshall sounded like a 200 watt solid state Acoustic brand.
So yeah, in this case, gear mattered, and I was thrilled to go back to my Fender after that band broke up.
Stayed with my Bassmen for 20 years and still have it. Now I use a Hot Rod Deluxe, or a Blues Jr., or any tube amp around or between those specs, and I am happy, and don't need any fancy amp or cab to get what sound I hear. I got a small pedal board that I can coax a good sound out of anything now. My gear is set so it no longer matters.
So there's half empty, half full for you.
Steve B.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

I suck the same on whatever I play.. I do agree that gear should be secondary to the player. I do feel more natural and flow better on certain guitars. Most really good players can sound good or get their sound on most anything, but different gear can invoke different moods or feelings and inspire you to play something different.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

Not sure if this is germane,
But on the topic of gear doesn't matter, I had a kind of "good gear" sound ****ty once. I was lucky (or not) to have played a few months with Eric Burden of the Animals, right after he left (got fired) War.
He had Hendrix's Marshall Stack ( head goosed to 200 watts) and Eric made me play it as it was set up, he claimed he checked all the knobs before he got it after Jimi died.
It was dimed on all knobs, at first I thought, wow, with my 68 LP Custom, I'll kill (this was in the 70's). But this amp that Hendrix had coaxed so many beautiful and angry sounds out of I could not make a single note that sounded good to me.
I tried changing it when Eric was gone, but I could not do it. The tone to my ears was ****.
My Blackface Bassman sounded like Clapton/Mayall and Jimi's Marshall sounded like a 200 watt solid state Acoustic brand.
So yeah, in this case, gear mattered, and I was thrilled to go back to my Fender after that band broke up.
Stayed with my Bassmen for 20 years and still have it. Now I use a Hot Rod Deluxe, or a Blues Jr., or any tube amp around or between those specs, and I am happy, and don't need any fancy amp or cab to get what sound I hear. I got a small pedal board that I can coax a good sound out of anything now. My gear is set so it no longer matters.
So there's half empty, half full for you.
Steve B.

That plays into Morello's narrative exactly. It's almost identical to his anecdote.

The whole thing can be summed up as "It comes down to you, gear is peripheral". 8 words.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

I don't care if I need them or not. New toys are fun

Hell Yes !!!

 

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

Fair enough but I still don't think people need their panties wadded up over it. I've already said something to this effect about three times already but here goes one more. The majority of the audience doesn't give a sh!t what gear you use. You don't need the best or even the most ideal gear to be a great band or to be a great musician. Yes, I'm a vague hypocrite because I run some nice gear but I get the point and don't claim that my gear somehow matters. I've used all kinds of different gear on stage from solid state halfstacks, high wattage all tube beasts, rack setups, modelling to a power amp and cabinet, modelling direct to PA and sometimes both and the people who have commented on liking my tone haven't done so because they saw a badge they recognize (sometimes what I was using wasn't even visible). It all comes down to me. If you can afford it and you know what you want, there's nothing wrong with having nice gear at all so long as you don't expect it to do something it can't and don't lose sight of what's important.

Almost every player who complains about how bad the Dual Rectifier is for metal just don't appear to be very good rhythm players who need a lot of compression and something to suck all the low end out to compensate whereas someone with a pick hand like Hetfield has absolutely no problem getting that tight sound out of one stock so the amp becomes less of a factor overall. This whole thing doesn't even apply to you bedroom hobbyists who do it exclusively for the tone, it applies to musicians and more specifically, songwriters. It's the same backwards thinking that make amateur, bedroom studio sound engineers think they would make astonishingly great mixes if only they had a Neve console worth as much as a house and the truth is if they can't get remotely great mixes already with what they have, no amount of analogue console colouring is going to improve anything.

/thread. Go home.

Absolutely. No matter what gear you've got, the better your technique, the better the tone. There is also something to be said for ones ability to dial in their gear too. They guy with good technique and the ability to dial in his rig will sound better than someone with less skill no matter what the gear is. The effect the gear has on your tone only takes you so far.

I've also found a lot of times when people say a particular piece of gear is horrible, it's usually that they aren't using it in the best application. For example, a lot of people hate the sound of the neck position of an American Deluxe Strat with the S-1 switch engaged. The tone is described as thin and weak (it's got one of the pickups wired out of phase). I find that thin and weak clean tone to be great for funk. It cuts without being overly dominant. I find this even more true since I got my Egnater Rebel 30. And something about that setting I discovered right away after getting that guitar was if you stack a tube screamer and another OD with moderate to high gain on one closest to the amp then the other as a boost or up to moderate gain, you get this huge tone... It's nasally as hell, but it's fat and can cut through anything. People are too quick to dismiss a piece of gear when if you take the time to experiment, the not so useful tones may become useful.

 

[mantis]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

Mantis,
People talking to each other in a mainly civil tone is never stupid. Beer$ is a little negative on the idea of gear, but still, he he has been there and I like to hear his view.
Talking gear is fun for me. I think football is stupid, but not for football fans, and I would never call them stupid. I just keep it to myself.
So should you.
There are almost 5 pages that prove my point. I really enjoy different perspectives on all things gear.
I am ready for any nasty comment one might make, - expecting one from you, But I don't mean this as a name calling post, I am just saying, this thread is not stupid
for many people, even some of your friends, I bet.
Steve B.

My stupid comment is not towards the people posting on this thread it's towards the idea that Your Gear all of it doesn't matter statement. You need not read into it anymore as that opening statement is stupid to me.
I have been a Musician since 1979. I grew up in a musical family that goes back many generations. Since the first year I played guitar( Which I avoided the Piano that I was asked to learn then) Found out very quickly that gear absolutely matters to me. The quality of sound really inspires me to play better, write better and want to play longer.
I'm not a gear snob and put my nose up at anyones rig no matter what they use. I look at gear as tools to create not as " Look at what I own". Hell I own a Krank Revolution 1 and many people put their noses up at it as back in the day Krank got a really bad rap for doing what they did by posting false reviews in order to sell their products.
Here's whats funny about that experience for me. I grew up playing Fender amps then later Marshall. At the time right before I purchased the Krank back in 2006, I was trying to find an amp that suited my needs. I was dead locked into a Fender like clean as I grew up with Twin Reverbs and found that that was my preferred clean sound. When playing other amps if they didn't have that level of sonic clarity, I didn't want the amp no matter how much I liked everything else about it. Case the 5150 peavey, it had exactly what I was looking for in a drive channel but the cleans just didn't work for me. I tried so many amps back then as then stores had a much better election then what is offered today.
I almost purchased a Mesa Boogie the Dual Rec as the drive channel on that amp I was able to get what I wanted. It was a very inspiring tone and I knew I could work with it but the cleans just disappointed me. I played this amp at Russo's music for 2 hours and just lost interest in it and was very disappointed as I really liked the drive channel.
The Sales man told me I should try out Krank amps as they have wonderful clean channels and brutal Mesa Like Drive channels. I was a bit guarded with a name like Krank and an amp company I never heard of. But for the sheer hell of it I plugged in and tried the cleans out first.
I could not believe me ears. I wanted to take to cover off the amp and find a Fender Bassman 10 had underneath. It had this wonderful clean that made me feel right at home. I actually started to write a song in the showroom as it really inspired me to play and get lost in my playing. This is what I look for when I'm shopping for gear. Guitars pedals or amps whatever if I get lost in it I know it's for me. The Drive channel on the Krank blew me away. I couldn't believe how damn good it was. I was amazed that an amp like this existed and had to have one.
My point with that story is to me gear matters a lot. I don't like many guitars not because someone else doesn't but it's how I feel when I play it. I don't like Les Pauls anymore as I owned a really nice Custom Deluxe back in the day and today I don't like how they feel. They sound great but I lose interest in playing when I play one after a few minutes. It's not for me.
I know stupid is a strong way to express myself and I can see someone taking offense to that but it's how I feel. I'm a musician who loves his gear. When I pick up my 2016 Charvel San Dimas HT I feel at home. It's like the guitar I've been waiting for all my life. It's not a very high end guitar at only $869 but to me it's THE ONE. It feels right in my hand , it sounds incredible, it inspires me to play , practice and write songs. Thats one of the biggest reasons why I feel gear absolutely matters.
Tone and feel are the most important things to me playing for anymore then a few minutes. I lose all interest when my tone and the feeling of the guitar isn't right. Hell there are times many times I don't like my tone. I'm constantly pulling out my Boss GT-100 out of my rig as I hate when I hear the "Digital like" Tones it makes. I love how it works but most of the time hate the way it sounds. I go back to pedals and love the sound but hate all the work involved in using all separate pedals. I'm working on fixing that issue as many make these awesome pedal controllers that also control your amp. I'm sure more guitarist either own one , know about them or want one like me.
So anyway I have no interest in being an ******* or what have you to anyone. I'm a musician who greatly enjoys talking gear with anyone who will listen LOL. But to say gear doesn't matter is to me dead wrong no matter how you try to justify that comment.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

He's a Clown and here's why I feel that way.
I've been playing since 1979 so I know a thing or 2 about playing and gear. I'm also a Technician and understand signal flow. I grew up in a musical family and been around music since birth.
Gear matters. They are tools to help you create or re create music. That's like saying to a Mechanic Tools don't matter. A Mechanic needs special tools to his job. Not any tool will do the job.
A Fender Twin reverb has probably hands down the best sounding cleans in the world. That kind of tone free's you and allow you to write songs that express how you feel not be tied down to an amp that can't express what you feel inside.
Same goes with a guitar. Some guitars feel good in your hands and some don't. Some sound the way you want them 2 and some don't. Personally if the guitar I'm playing doesn't take to me , I lose interest in playing.
Effects are a way to create what you feel and need to make the sound the way you want it. How can that not matter? This is a stupid comment.

If your a gear snob then so be it ,thats your choice. If you feel you need a wall of ENGL amps to create your sound then so be it. I really don't care what anyone uses. All gear is just tools to get the job done no matter how you feel about it. To say in any way it doesn't matter sounds like clown stuff. Everything matters from the pick you use, the strings you feel are right, the guitar in your hand, the chords to plug it in, the effects out front , the preamp the loop and the effects in there and the power amp right down to the speakers inside the cabinet. If you think none of this matters then so be it. Go play whatever and make whatever music out of whatever you want.
Still doesn't matter to me.

Man U sure wrote a lot for someone that all of this does not matter too :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

[LLL]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

Like I always say, "Tom who?"

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Your gear (all of it) does NOT matter !

I get where you're coming from Mantis. The actual statement seems to be the original poster taking that one sentence out of context which TM explains better in the video. Pretty sneaky way to start a thread war

I respect your experience like anyone who's been doing this longer than me so no hard feelings.