I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

[Rodney Gene]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

The reason these threads re-surface and propagate is because there are at least 5 core subjects being discussed here that are not related to each other despite any overlapping conversations or witty anecdotes...
On the forums, individuals cherry pick any of these to validate their current position, opinion or agenda. Ironically these are internet arguments or coffee table chats. They never show up on stage or in the studio. Whether a piece of gear works or not onstage or in the studio is revealed quickly...cost, name brand, history, build quality aside.

I have observed that the folks on forums who tend to throw in all of these concepts when defending their gear choices, genuinely have little real life experience or true relationship building with the gear they bash.
Despite my support of the initial spirit of the thread, in my experience high-quality, custom or boutique gear gets bashed about by hobbyists or by those who cannot afford it far more often than budget gear get bashed by those who can.

Forum culture over the years has pushed the budget player to do anything or say anything to validate their purchases when really all they need to do to prove a point is make music with it. And on the other hand high-end hobbyists who lump all budget gear into one low quality heap are usually not players, but rather use the status of their gear purchases to validate their worth. There are exceptions to each but both are the same thing in the end. Those who are really listening and really playing understand the gist of the gig and use anything that is working for them at the moment and really have no motivation to comment or diminish what anybody else is using. There is no arguing value or taste and remaining sane. If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.

[BriGuy1968]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Agreed. I picked up a Behringer PreAmp Boost and it does exactly what I wanted it to do. If something satisfies the need, who cares how much (or little) it costs?


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[DinoTrousers]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

I think at times, belligerent attitude toward certain brands is warranted. Why? Cause everyone agrees it's crap. Behringer is the perfect example of this. About 7-8 years ago nobody took it seriously. Most of its stuff is copy of renowned industry standards, from pedals to preamps to rack effects to DI box to mixers, you can find just about anything in its lineup. It actually has a Sonic Maximizer and Sonic Exciter copy with cheesy word-play like 'Sonic Ultramizer'.

Although some of the stuff like the plastic stompboxes and Sans Amp clone is quite decent for casual players and students, nobody with a profession in the music industry ever laid fingers on Behringer. And it's true. I used to have a mic preamp very2 cheap. After around 1.5 months the LEDs went wrong. I couldn't return it for an exchange cause it was more than 30 days already (what a perfect timing eh? lol...).

Now I want to continue to BBE Sonic Maximizer. This thing is - regardless of the technical explanation provided by BBE - is just a 2-band EQ. It just kills your sound. Be my guess, search everywhere and the general consensus is Sonic Maximizer is tone killer. I am talking from personal experience.

The tools are what you make of them. Ignoring Behringer's really nice new digital mixers (The X32 is killer and used a ton professionally), I know several professional musicians who use/have used behringer stuff. I personally sold the little plastic graphic EQ pedal to Gary Nichols of The Steeldrivers, and I've seen him use it on stage. He just won a Grammy and uses a Behringer pedal on stage.

Gear is a tool. It's what you make of it. I love nice gear. I love high end gear. But nice gear doesn't always have to be high end gear.

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

I just plug in and listen to decide whether I like the sound(s) that I am getting. If I'm happy with them, I play. If I'm not happy, I make changes.

[Gainstage]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Everyone has their own sense of taste, how they play and what they hear. Opinions are vastly objective, personally I do not give a care what anyone likes or what I find decent quality as obviously their standards and criteria are not on the same page. I do think everyone has the option to use whatever they like and sound as terrible as they wish.
If putting down more high end modeler units is considered the same premise as not messing with $30 pedals I must have gotten on the short bus by mistake. Maybe they are judging the modeler thing on the basis of some Behringer "modeler" or whatnot which is on par with the other cheap stuff.
Not everything of any particular brand is "bad" or "crap" but some things are more a substantial known quality and tone level, which is just better but there again who can say what one can or does not hear.
I love the whole basic tube amp thing but I really prefer the sound of cleaner tube structures and using pedals for various overdrive and gain tones. A good modeler does a pretty good version of clean tubes which sounds good to me but what do I know I do not own any $30 pedals.

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

I use a 'crappy modeller' (An Axe FX II XL) to get the best sound I've ever had, and it's easier/cheaper to fly to gigs. People judge them and I do not care.

Doesn't John Frusciante still use a Boss distortion, a Line 6 DL4 and an Ibanez wah?

If it works it works, but I can see the frustration regarding choice and places to try stuff out......particularly PICKUPS!

I'd hardly call an Axe FX II XL a "crappy modeller". In fact, I think they are your best option if you can afford them. I personally can't justify that kind of money on real tubes, much less a modeller. For the price range I can afford, tubes are still the best choice.

[Lysergene]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

I use a 'crappy modeller' (An Axe FX II XL) to get the best sound I've ever had, and it's easier/cheaper to fly to gigs. People judge them and I do not care.

Doesn't John Frusciante still use a Boss distortion, a Line 6 DL4 and an Ibanez wah?

If it works it works, but I can see the frustration regarding choice and places to try stuff out......particularly PICKUPS!

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

I have a US YJM Strat & and a '94 MIJ Ibanez S540. Amp-wise, I have 28 Watt Class A Cicognani Brutus Live that retailed for €1350 new..

I like My $150 AXL & $450 Raven West as much as either of those guitar's & my $350 Bugera & $450 AMT Stonehead (ok...they're $700 new..still not exhorbitant) as much as the Brutus. They're all comparable as far as finish/quality/feel/playability/tone etc goes.. The "expensiveness" of the expensive gear does'nt really knock me flat on my arse, in fact I don't notice it at all. Period.

I've played $3000+ Gibby & PRS's that I would'nt buy for $100 if you bribed me... I've played $2000 Prestige's that sounded/played a lot worse & were no better finished/put together than the $400 SA I just bought. Yes you need to swap electronics & pickups (most people do that with their $3000+ LP's/PRS/Prestiges/Soloists etc anyway)..sometimes you need to swap hardware..but after that...no..it does'nt feel/sound cheaper than anything out there..

Guess how much these $400 Cort's....or my $450 Raven West neck through would cost if they had "Jackson" (lets face it..."Custom shop" ) or "PRS" on the headstock..









Now we all have our quirks. I won't buy a Prestige 'cause I think the non-silver logo looks "cheap" Does that make sense...no it does'nt

[Demanic]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

^^
Not to derail, but I bet that C-REX in pine sounds fantastic.

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[leevc5]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Ok,
So I was reading about the dude and his Boss OD-3 pedal that he is loving. He feels the pedal is under rated as he has found a sound in it that he is really digging.
Then this other dude goes in there and bashes Boss and how so many people post about Boss Etc etc etc.
I'm gonna start out by saying this. I have been playing guitar since 1979.My first guitar and amp where real Fender 1970 American Fender Strat and a Fender Champ amp. Not less then 2 years I owned a Fender Twin Reverb with a Gibson Custom Deluxe Tobacco Burst les Paul.Thats the level of gear I played since the age of 9 and owned plenty of high end stuff since. I'm 46 years old and probably owned more pedals then most of you. I have tried pedals from the entry level Orion Level stuff from way back in the day to very high end Boutique stuff that cost hundreds of dollars.

One thing I understand about said person who commented about the Boss pedals is this, When I go to all music stores in my area, lower end gear is what they sell now. Your hard pressed to find higher end stuff. Amps I want to scream as I can't find one single store that has high end amps on the floor anymore. Everyone is caring more entry level stuff , combos and rarely do you see a 1/2 stack anymore. I was told they don't sell anymore and most players want a 1x12 combo due to weight and portability. Not to mention on stage you don't need anymore then that for most small to medium places. You don't even see many 2 x 12 cab's or 2 x 12 combos. Yes there are some but not enough to find your tone in a new amp.

Guitars the same thing or at least for us metal guys. If I want a new Charvel , Jackson , ESP etc, I have to search my ass off to find someone willing to carry the higher end stuff. And higher end I'm talking $799 and above. Years ago $799 was an entry level guitar now for some reason it's considered higher end.
So to me the world in general is broke and weak. Can't afford a higher dollar guitar and can't carry an amp past a 1x12 people say that thats all you need. I call Bullcrap , if you play a 1 x 12 amp and then the 2 x 12 or 4 x 12 of the same thing, at least to me I find the sound to be more airy , open and fuller. I don't care about how much it weighs or costs. When I'm finding my tone, I don't want to be limited to a few choices.

I'm thinking the frustration of said dude and his Boss comments might have something to do with this. The way the world is right now.
Now here is the difference with him and I. Yes I'm angry at the world of Professional music right now with the choices the stores around me decide to carry. I know it's based off supply and demand but I can't be the only one left on the planet today which craves a 2 x 12 or 4 x 12 sound of a real Tube amp and a better quality metal guitar? But I don't judge those who decide to play the $699 and under guitars, or the guy who likes his 1 x 12 combo. Or the guy who builds a full pedal board from all Boss pedals with a Boss made pedal board. If thats his sound , cool I'm happy to see someone play guitar.

Same goes with this Modeling stuff. Don't get me started on that. There is no one who hates Modeling amps and crap more then me but again just because it's not for me doesn't mean all of you out there shouldn't use it or love it.

I'm a musician and respect all of you including dude who hates Boss. He has his reasons but I don't agree bashing the product every time someone wants to talk about it. I'm gonna assume he wishes more people would buy pedals he likes so he can talk about his pedals with other who share the same passion for them as he does.
If you go look at just about every single Professional Artist out there for the last 3 Decades or more, you will find Boss pedals. Why? Because Boss makes a quality products. Steve Vai ,Paul Gilbert , Eddie Van Halen, Guss G , Joe Satriani , Zak Wild , George Lynch ( I could go on for years) use Boss Pedals. Those dudes can afford anything they want. They Choose Boss because there is tone in them that they find useful.It's not about price and thats why you buy them. Yes maybe some find Boss to be very affordable but there is cheaper stuff on the market you can buy that cost a lot less then Boss.
To me I find Boss to be the Industry standard I judge any other pedal against. If I want a delay try and find a better delay then what Boss makes. It's not easy I have tried. Same with Chorus I find Boss is the best on the market. But thats just me and me alone.

Tone is tone man and if a $19.99 dollar pedal works, buy it. If it take $999 to get your tone then buy that one. To me the Price is the price and that doesn't steer me from finding my tone. Yeah If I was on a budget and couldn't afford the pedal I wanted I wouldn't settle for the cheaper one because thats all I can afford. I would save up and get the one I want. And I would not not buy a pedal due to brand or it's to cheap. Again if I plug into a pedal and it speaks to me, it comes home with me.

I think you nailed it but took a circuitous route to say: hey man, dig your tone with whatever works for you.
For me it's a Les Paul Studio ($600), with Fluence Classics ($185), 5F1 home built ($200), cannabis rex speaker ($75) in a pine cabinet $25) home built. That's what I'm into today. I have a pile of other gear that I rotate thru as time goes by....love the gear you're with...

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

The guy doing sound should be an audiophile. The best PA gear will be full range and a good sound man will be able to find that balance between making everything sound the way the way it does in the room without the PA but louder and making it so every instrument is eq'd to where everything has its space and is audible in the mix.

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Then there are those of us in between. The pseudo musician/audiophile. I like my music "hi-fi", but that doesn't stop me from occasionally injecting the cheap-ass vintage Pioneer or Sansui reverb into the signal chain. It's about fun.

I would still classify you as a musician rather than an audiophile when it comes to the sound of your electric guitar. As a listener you might be an audiophile and select equipment based on how accurately it reproduces things as they were intended; but as a musician you select your gear based on the sound you want for that track/song/section of music.

You might go for high end gear most of the time, but ultimately you're willing to use something considered lower quality if the way it impacts your sound is desirable... even if only for specific bits and pieces of your music.

[Demanic]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Maybe people should learn to reason??

Not likely.

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[ArtieToo]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

I would say that the difference between the audiophile and the musician is that one is trying to reproduce a sound exactly as it was recorded while the other is focused on creating the source sound.

Then there are those of us in between. The pseudo musician/audiophile. I like my music "hi-fi", but that doesn't stop me from occasionally injecting the cheap-ass vintage Pioneer or Sansui reverb into the signal chain. It's about fun.

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: I have a few words about brands and people who judge them.

Excellent post my friend.
I'm in the "Audiophile " Business and have been for about 20 years. I see that all the time. It's retarded in the cable world, companies and people go crazy over them. Just to say good quality cables are whats needed to achieve the job of sending a signal from A to B with out interference or loss is the goal. But at what price can this be achieved has always been the question. And to add once you achieve said goal, there is nothing more can be done.
Speakers and amps go crazy to in that ring.

In the guitar world, I don't see this as much. Yes it's there but nothing like the Audiophile world.

I would say that the difference between the audiophile and the musician is that one is trying to reproduce a sound exactly as it was recorded while the other is focused on creating the source sound. One wants the full audio spectrum available at all times while the other seeks to manipulate their sound by limiting or enhancing the frequency response to varying degrees based on the sound they want... The exception would probably be the gear found in a PA system or studio control room.