Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

[Johtosotku]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

In my experience, not to my satisfaction.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

I love it when the low gain types give out info on high gain tones.

The short answer is low output pickups can imitate a high output pickup but they cannot duplicate.

The longer answer is that the pickup is the first step in the signal chain. If its not coming from your pickup you have nothing to work with. A boost is great.... IF its boosting the frequencies you want. Same with gain... compression and any other effect. A good high gain tone has to start with the right source. Many low output pickups hit the amp with a ton of annoying buzzy high end that only gets worse if you boost it. Sure you can try to go in with a graphic eq and dial out the bad while boosting the good then hit it with a compressor to get the attack you want. But man thats a ton of noise to introduce into your signal chain when you could have just got the right pickup to do the job in the first place.

Bottom line.. everything has trade offs either get the right tool for the job or be prepared to compromise somewhere

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

As others said, it can get you there most of the way.

If you're playing gigs where you need to be able to cover a wide range of songs in front of a bar, I'd say go with low output pickups. The layman won't tell the difference. And unless you're super OCD about the 5% difference, it'll be easier.

If you're playing one style of music, use the pickup best suited for that. Example, thrash being played on a high output pickup.

If you're playing original material or punk, use whatever pickup you want.

 

[jonsick]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

This is a yes and no question.

I had all my guitars at one stage fitted with EMGs (81s, 85s and 89s).

I'm perfectly happy with my EMG pickups for anything downtuned. I have yet to hear a passive do better and I don't dislike the EMGs enough to really bother trying. I'm talking C# sort of area.

However I didn't like them on standard E or D tunings. They were too compressed, not enough dynamics and the 18v modification didn't help.

The lower output pickups, particularly the DiMarzio Super Distortion, Duncan JB and Duncan Distortion are currently getting the most play time for those tunings.

I have a Les Paul that I initially loaded with a Pearly Gates and a 59. I didn't like the combo because even though I dialled in more gain on the amp, it felt just a bit woolly and I struggled to get pinch harmonics out of it. It just didn't seem to want to be driven all that much. I then changed for the Slash Alnico set. Although I can't quite get pinch harmonics out of it without trying hard, I really like the tone. It's rather similar to tones on Rotting Christ's Aealo or Dead Poem album. Really restrained and singing with the gain dialled up a bit fierce.

So far I would say that for me ultra high out pickups like the Invader or the Black Winter don't really have a place for me, ultra low output doesn't really get me there either. It's too much the other way. So for me, somewhere in the middle so the guitar is hot enough to get those cool solo tones out but enough breathing space to allow picking dynamics through.

So far my favorite pickup set is the DiMarzio Super Distortion and Gravity Storm neck. It's the perfect combo in anything alder body maple neck. I didn't like them too much in the Les Paul, but I quite like the mix between GnR and RC kind of tones I get with the AlNiCo Slash set.

For reference, I use a Peavey 6505+, Marshall TSL100 and a Marshall JVM410h as my main rigs depending on band.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

This is a yes and no question.

I had all my guitars at one stage fitted with EMGs (81s, 85s and 89s).

I'm perfectly happy with my EMG pickups for anything downtuned. I have yet to hear a passive do better and I don't dislike the EMGs enough to really bother trying. I'm talking C# sort of area.

However I didn't like them on standard E or D tunings. They were too compressed, not enough dynamics and the 18v modification didn't help.

The lower output pickups, particularly the DiMarzio Super Distortion, Duncan JB and Duncan Distortion are currently getting the most play time for those tunings.

I have a Les Paul that I initially loaded with a Pearly Gates and a 59. I didn't like the combo because even though I dialled in more gain on the amp, it felt just a bit woolly and I struggled to get pinch harmonics out of it. It just didn't seem to want to be driven all that much. I then changed for the Slash Alnico set. Although I can't quite get pinch harmonics out of it without trying hard, I really like the tone. It's rather similar to tones on Rotting Christ's Aealo or Dead Poem album. Really restrained and singing with the gain dialled up a bit fierce.

So far I would say that for me ultra high out pickups like the Invader or the Black Winter don't really have a place for me, ultra low output doesn't really get me there either. It's too much the other way. So for me, somewhere in the middle so the guitar is hot enough to get those cool solo tones out but enough breathing space to allow picking dynamics through.

So far my favorite pickup set is the DiMarzio Super Distortion and Gravity Storm neck. It's the perfect combo in anything alder body maple neck. I didn't like them too much in the Les Paul, but I quite like the mix between GnR and RC kind of tones I get with the AlNiCo Slash set.

For reference, I use a Peavey 6505+, Marshall TSL100 and a Marshall JVM410h as my main rigs depending on band.

I highly recommend you try the DD for C#. I play in that tuning, and it's beyond perfect. Great tightness to the sound, and still allows for all the picking dynamics.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

This is a yes and no question.

I had all my guitars at one stage fitted with EMGs (81s, 85s and 89s).

I'm perfectly happy with my EMG pickups for anything downtuned. I have yet to hear a passive do better and I don't dislike the EMGs enough to really bother trying. I'm talking C# sort of area.

However I didn't like them on standard E or D tunings. They were too compressed, not enough dynamics and the 18v modification didn't help.

The lower output pickups, particularly the DiMarzio Super Distortion, Duncan JB and Duncan Distortion are currently getting the most play time for those tunings.

I have a Les Paul that I initially loaded with a Pearly Gates and a 59. I didn't like the combo because even though I dialled in more gain on the amp, it felt just a bit woolly and I struggled to get pinch harmonics out of it. It just didn't seem to want to be driven all that much. I then changed for the Slash Alnico set. Although I can't quite get pinch harmonics out of it without trying hard, I really like the tone. It's rather similar to tones on Rotting Christ's Aealo or Dead Poem album. Really restrained and singing with the gain dialled up a bit fierce.

So far I would say that for me ultra high out pickups like the Invader or the Black Winter don't really have a place for me, ultra low output doesn't really get me there either. It's too much the other way. So for me, somewhere in the middle so the guitar is hot enough to get those cool solo tones out but enough breathing space to allow picking dynamics through.

So far my favorite pickup set is the DiMarzio Super Distortion and Gravity Storm neck. It's the perfect combo in anything alder body maple neck. I didn't like them too much in the Les Paul, but I quite like the mix between GnR and RC kind of tones I get with the AlNiCo Slash set.

For reference, I use a Peavey 6505+, Marshall TSL100 and a Marshall JVM410h as my main rigs depending on band.

I bet my left foot that's not what most people here mean by "low output pickups" at all.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

I bet my left foot that's not what most people here mean by "low output pickups" at all.

You can keep your left foot... not sure what someone would want with it... but pretty sure your right...

Whats funnier is that a DD is actually higher output than a 81. Just the 81 pushes frequencies that your ears pick up easy so they seem a ton louder.

 

[jonsick]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

I highly recommend you try the DD for C#. I play in that tuning, and it's beyond perfect. Great tightness to the sound, and still allows for all the picking dynamics.

I did. It was probably the best I have in the passive realm, but I just still prefer the clarity that EMGs bring to the table with the lower tunings. For what it's worth, I don't like heavy strings. I just use 11-54 for C#.

 

[jonsick]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

You can keep your left foot... not sure what someone would want with it... but pretty sure your right...

Whats funnier is that a DD is actually higher output than a 81. Just the 81 pushes frequencies that your ears pick up easy so they seem a ton louder.

I did mention Pearly Gates and AlNiCo IIs.... those are low output... right?

While the DD may be higher output on paper, to me they're not as perceptively higher than EMGs. And I generally prefer the DiMarzio offering anyway, though sometimes can be a little too hot.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

While the DD may be higher output on paper, to me they're not as perceptively higher than EMGs.

Well yeah.. thats what i just said... people think they are louder but they really arent.

 

[crguti]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

I must respectfully disagree. Guitars have volume knobs, you know?

here we have an example of someone who has never played with a high output pickup

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

I'll elaborate a bit. I don't have the most extensive experience of low output pickups, but I'd reckon I have had enough of them to form an opinion. I've also used them pretty extensively; for example I recorded a small thing for my past metal band with a strat with a Fender '54 bridge pickup straight into a Koch Twintone II, which isn't exactly a high gain monster amp. I liked it then and I still like the tones when I listen to it today.

However, to me high output pickups have both the tone and the feel I prefer. To my ears, they're more balanced, warmer and tighter. I want my humbuckers to have an immediate midrange punch. Most paf-alikes are too boomy, scooped and bright for me. To get the attack I like, I have to hit the strings really hard all the time, which I don't like. These days I also often tune to B which requires even more tightness and clarity.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

Lowering the volume of a high output pickup does not make a high output pup sound or respond like a Jazz or Alnico II Pro pickup at all. Sure, lowering the volume knob can clean up the gain of a high output pickup a bit but the "compression" stays with it. Also, if you have not done a treble bleed mod on the pickup you also lose treble when you turn down the volume.

If you back a high output pickup way off the strings it becomes much less compressed. I've got a Tone Zone in a Charvel set so that it responds to dynamics pretty much the same way that a Seth Lover sounds in my 335. I was just switching between both guitars last night and comparing. The Tone Zone is voiced darker than the Seth Lover though . . . not sure how much that matter as I never run the tone control on the Seth bridge fully open.

 

[Detroitblues]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

seems like a lot of people who disdain hi-gain pickups say that they can just make up for them with amp gain and compressor pedals, and still have better cleans/note articulation.

can a lower output bridge PAFish wind with an A2 really be as convincing for metal by using more gain from the amp/pedals/compressor

compared to something like a Custom/JB/ etc?


or will it never have the same chunk/bite/sustain as a higher output pickup?

Does anyone argue that Slash doesn't have good high gain tones?

 

[jonsick]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

Does anyone argue that Slash doesn't have good high gain tones?

Er, actually I do!

If you listen to any live GnR stuff, I really don't rate Slash's high gain tone at all. Sometimes they feel a little bit like he's struggling with the lack of gain!

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

Does anyone argue that Slash doesn't have good high gain tones?

I think that Slash has good tone for what he does, which isn't, for example, death metal. For some people, it leaves a lot to wish for.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

Does anyone argue that Slash doesn't have good high gain tones?

I think Slash's tone is great. It's a nice touch of gain. Of all the most famous modern guitarists I like Slash's respect for the classic guitar greats like Hendrix, Page and so many others. Slash is constantly paying homage to them in his interviews (unlike EVH for example who claims he never listened to them... B.S.) as well as chasing a modern tone that is a nice blend of classic and modern.

I am a rare person these days but I can't stand most modern metal tones when I hear them. Some are ok but most of them are just too much damn gain. It's too thick, too much crunch and too much mids for me and leaves the organic woody tones of electric guitar completely out of the picture.

Er, actually I do!

If you listen to any live GnR stuff, I really don't rate Slash's high gain tone at all. Sometimes they feel a little bit like he's struggling with the lack of gain!

What? Struggling with a lack of gain? That's called the sweet tones of electric guitar. Too much gain is a tone killer.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

Does anyone argue that Slash doesn't have good high gain tones?

I would argue that Slash's tone is neither high gain... nor good. Its bright and thin.. it serves his place in the band but isnt a tone i would like for myself. If you ask me Izzy had a lot better tone than Slash

 

[Archer250]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

I think Slash's tone is great. It's a nice touch of gain. Of all the most famous modern guitarists I like Slash's respect for the classic guitar greats like Hendrix, Page and so many others. Slash is constantly paying homage to them in his interviews (unlike EVH for example who claims he never listened to them... B.S.) as well as chasing a modern tone that is a nice blend of classic and modern.

I am a rare person these days but I can't stand most modern metal tones when I hear them. Some are ok but most of them are just too much damn gain. It's too thick, too much crunch and too much mids for me and leaves the organic woody tones of electric guitar completely out of the picture.



What? Struggling with a lack of gain? That's called the sweet tones of electric guitar. Too much gain is a tone killer.

Are you kidding me? If you ask me, most modern metal tones don't have enough mids.

 

[CTN]

Re: Can low output pickups really imitate hi-gain pu's with pedals/and enough gain?

Can a PAF be used to play metal if you pile enough gain on top of it?
- Yes

Will it sound good?
- Maybe, maybe not, depends on how you stack that gain and what kinda gear you're using. IME, despite using a variety of good gear, and a bunch of different settings, boosts, overdrives, etc, a PAF with tons of gain always sounds very gainy, and clear in the high end, weak in the mids and thin in the lows. You could probably make that kinda sound work if you make sure the rest of the band EQs their stuff accordingly so that the front-of-house mix sounds good. But I would much rather not do that.

Will it respond and feel like an unboosted high output pickup?
- Absolutely not. I much prefer the sound of a higher output pickup for high gain styles of music. They just have a more muscular, aggressive sound that works better for these genres. They slam you in the gut - like how the music is supposed to. PAFs can't do that. They're too polite.