Ever have a guitar that just won't....

hydro

Prayin' to Cheeses
...get you there? I have an ES-335 that's a few years old. It is a nice guitar but I just can't quite connect with it. I have a lot of $$ tied up in it - I could sell it and get something else, like a Les Paul. It just seems finicky - some days it plays great, but others it seems like it frets out, makes too much noise, sounds too sizzly, it's always something. It has trouble keeping in tune and the intonation has been problematic. When do you just give up and move on?

I thought originally that I'd use it mainly for recording but have ditched it in favor of my old SGs for several recent projects cause I just don't trust it.

I have thought about pickup swaps, adjustments and trying (again) to get a good setup on it but I am not sure how much good money I want to spend chasing bad.
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Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

Do you store the 335 in a place with temperature or humidity variation issues?

If not, the inconsistent string action, intonation and tuning stability issues suggest that the hardware may be shifting excessively. Inspect the bridge and tailpiece posts and inserts. Check the nut. Check and, if necessary, adjust the truss rod.
 
Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

Do you store the 335 in a place with temperature or humidity variation issues?

If not, the inconsistent string action, intonation and tuning stability issues suggest that the hardware may be shifting excessively. Inspect the bridge and tailpiece posts and inserts. Check the nut. Check and, if necessary, adjust the truss rod.

he lives in Houston
everywhere is Humid

I agree with mutt
Cut bait
move on
 
Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

I think a good luthier could fix it at marginal cost, thats said, I do agree with Ehdwuld, move one, because personally I have lost faith in ever finding a good luthier, especially with all the local- yocal podunck town hang a shingle out and proclaim you are an expert( insert hyphens) 5th rate guitar butchers out there masquerading as competent techs.

Even if you find a tech/luthier thats competent, good luck that he doesn't take your money and not perform the services as required, expected, and paid for. It's a crap shoot, and one you are most likely gonna lose, IMo . From all my experience, I wouldn't think of taking my guitars to anyone anymore, because even though I know just about nothing, I can do better than anyone to whom I was previously paying money, and not cheap either. Don't misunderstand, I would gladly pay top dollar to a luthier who did legitimate work. That is a scarce find.

For example, I found a seasoned 'professional' who makes 5000.00+ custom guitars, and has a very expensive equppied custom shop here in town , proclaims to high hevaens what a great seasoned pro he is on his website I took him my guitar and he butchered it-look, he couldn't even perform a reasonabe fret job on my Epiphone les paul, and couldn't ( possibly wouldn't for me)do a spray nitro lacquer on an expensive warmoth neck without a belemish.. His name is 'Redentore Guitars', and he has set up a shop here in Kerrville, he use to work for Epiphone custom shop, and IMO, he's a chralatan. so I say that to illustrate that just cause someone looks impressive- even then is no garuntee of quality work. YMMV.

SO I say dump it, move on and get a guitar that makes you happy right from the strat, like a chic in that respect.lol.
 
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Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

As far as the tone being too sizzley, try lowering the pickups. I have found that on a 335, pickups close to the strings never sound quite right. In fact, I have found that the further the distance, within reason, sounds best. Also, sometimes a Mahogany neck can be unstable and more sensitive to temperature and humidity which can create tuning and intonation issues. If after you address the problems and you still cannot bond with the guitar, then by all means, let it go.
 
Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

A few years ago, I bought a mid 80's ESP M1:

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Identical to this but seafoam green. I've got a few ESP's so was really looking forward to it.

I have to say, at first, I enjoyed playing it. Great neck and all that, but it's literally dead as a doornail. Some guitars ring nicely and you hear the wood vibrate. This just doesn't. It just doesn't ring. There's no natural sustain from the wood whatsoever. I don't know why. I imagine it was not a cheap guitar when it was first made, but just perhaps it was a dud.

I will be removing the pickup which is a MJ made Seymour Duncan JB and then selling it.
 
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Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

Yup.

I've bought "a few" thru mail order that I wouldn't've bothered with at @ a GC or such.

Damn shame,but it happens.
 
Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

One thing about this guitar is that originally, I bought the 335 from Guitar Center - kind of an impulse buy. Probably would not do it again, for a lot of reasons - but the guitar was defective. Truss rod setting had not been done right and what I thought was a slight blemish on the volute turned out to be a crack!! Well, Gibson actually took the guitar back and replaced it under warranty with this brand new 335. It's actually prettier than the one I had originally bought. But here's the deal - they just send you a guitar. So it's very much like buying one off the internet sight unseen. And I don't think I will ever buy a guitar that way again - it just never seems to work out.

Jeffblue, I do need to adjust the pickup height. I think that's a big part of the problem with the crackly/sizzly sound. It's not a dead guitar like what Skezza describes, it actually sounds pretty good -- it's more how it plays I think. Humidity doesn't help although it is kept in climate control most of the time and I don't generally gig with it. I got hit during the recent floods here in H-town and I moved the guitar to our rehearsal space for a while.

But in general I think you guys are right, I should probably sell it and move on. To me, when I know I have a great guitar, I just know, and I don't second guess it, with this guitar it's been back & forth and every time I think "Yeah this thing is great" then I play it again and I am disappointed.

Oddly enough I have a much less expensive Gibson Midtown (Gibson USA) and it is one of the best guitars I've ever owned, it cost less than half of the 335. Go figure....
 
Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

My Faded V was kinda like that. It was super-fussy about how much relief was in the neck -- too much, and it would sound flat and lifeless. If I cranked the action and gave it no relief the way it wanted, I couldn't blaze over the second octave like I do on my superstrats. It was still a fantastic guitar, and I'd like to have another someday if I can find one that does it all.
 
Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

I bought a Carvin DC127 about 15 years ago used for 200 bucks. I was getting back into a band and I needed a solid reliable axe for gigs. It was all that. Never had a problem with it, held its tune for a set, played like a dream, build quality was excellent and looked good enough. But it was/is meh as far as floating my boat. I kept it over the years as an emergency back-up and to use for odd ball tunings. Thankfully I was able to save enough scratch from gigs with it to pay for my current PRS.
 
Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

I've owned 80-some guitars in my career, and currently sit at 55. And I'm feeling your pain--I've had several guitars over the years that somehow seemed to be "less than the sum of its parts". It can be very disappointing and totally frustrating. I've got one or two around here right now that I'm agonizing over. OTOH, its always great to find a cheap pawnshop prize that simply blows you away, no matter what the name on the headstock.

I had one guitar back in the '70s, a Gibson ES-150DCN that I struggled with for six years before giving up on it. Wouldn't play in tune, wouldn't stay in tune. It would neck dive. It would feedback like crazy, and never really sounded that good through the amp I was using at the time (mostly the amp's fault). I finally gave up on it, and traded it off on a guitar that fit my needs better and that I love dearly. But, I took a big loss on it. Some of the problems would be fixable today, but back then good luthiers were few and far between. It was beautiful, but it never lived up to the promise of its spec sheet, like a beautiful blonde with a hot body who's a lousy lover. Very disappointing.

I bought a new Peavey Horizon II in 1990. Absolutely beautiful guitar, one of the best made guitars I've ever owned. And unlike the ES-150DCN, no real issues--just a guitar that didn't work for me. A couple of small nits in the design that I could never work through. It went away, and I've always felt guilty that it didn't work--but the young man I sold it to was very happy to have it and played the heck out of it. Win-Win.

I do have a success story, though. When I got my first G&L Comanche, I had a devil of a time with those Z-Coil pickups. It took a few Zen moments and some Jedi mind tricks to figure out how to set my tones. It wasn't the guitar, it was me having to throw out my playbook and learning how I could get the most out of that guitar. We get along famously now. Those guitars just kick ass; I'm SO glad I worked it out.

But, I currently have a Gibson Historic R9 that I love to look at but hate to play--the neck is just too big for me. I'm going to talk to a guy about possibly having the neck shaved a bit, but I think it's on the way out--better to cut my losses on this. It's a player-grade guitar, but I love the tone and the flame is to die for. Still, that neck ruins it for me, so it's probably time to sell.

It's hard for me to let go of a guitar sometimes. And I just hate it when I've bought a guitar and it turns out to be a mistake. Makes me not trust my judgment, and that's not a fun space to be in.

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I think the first thing to do is to sit down and honestly appraise the guitar. Not its value, but you need to ask yourself if you really like the 335 design. Is it comfortable to hold? Does the neck feel good? is it an appropriate instrument for the music I play? If you like small-bodied SGs with fat necks, 24 frets and play in a Norwegian Death Metal band, the 335 might not be for you. But if you're comfortable with the Slim Taper neck and the bigger body of the 335; if are doing Classic Rock, Blues, light Jazz, Fusion, Americana, Pop--then you have a guitar that can be very effective at those styles.

Having owned so many guitar over the years, I've learned that certain things work for me, and some things don't. I don't care for Bigsbys, and I don't have any need at all for a Floyd Rose equipped guitar. I prefer solid bodies over hollow bodies--I don't like the trapeze tailpiece, and abhor the screeching feedback that you get with a full hollow. I used to play vintage Fenders, but these days I like the 12" radius and medium jumbo frets of my G&Ls--and they have the best vibrato, too. I want a guitar that plays in tune and stays in tune. I don't do guitars with 24-fret necks. I like classic shapes--an Explorer or a Vee would be fine, but that's about as pointy as I get. I like guitars with 2HBs; I like guitars with three single coils. So the point is, you have to define what works for you, and then try to figure out whether the 335 fits into that matrix.

So my guitar collection right now is very large, but it is basically large because of all the duplicates I have. There's 18 G&Ls, 11 LPs, 10 Martin dreads and 3 ES-335s--because those guitars fit my criteria and that's what I like to play. I don't have a Ric, a Gretsch, an Ovation, a Jazz box, a Parker, Jackson or Charvel super-strat--I buy what works for me.

So, if you think there's some redeeming value to your 335 and it is going to fit your criteria and your musical style, then the next step is to take it to a luthier and have some of these issues addressed. The very first thing I do to every Gibson I buy is to put strap locks on--these days I prefer Schallers. If the guitar came from Gibson and you haven't had it setup, then you'll probably need to have the nut filed a bit. It the nut action is too high, the guitar will not play in tune in the First Position. Make sure that the tuner bushings are tight, but DO NOT OVER-TIGHTEN! The truss rod needs to be adjusted to fit your playing style and have positive tension on the nut. (I hit hard, so I like a little extra relief.) I use 10-46 D'Addario XL strings on my Gibsons, same as the factory gauge. I find that sticking to the factory gauge works best for Gibson guitars.

One of the things you will need to do is have the saddles on your bridge properly radiused. The saddles should be set to follow the radius of the fingerboard, which is usually 12". A lot of folks think that the ABR-1 and Nashville bridges come this way from that factory, but IME they always need some touch up. The luthier should know how to use and have a radius gauge and have the proper files--and know what you're talking about. If he doesn't, find a better luthier. You'll want to have it done using the gauge of strings you'll be using.

If your guitar has the ABR-1 bridge, inspect it very carefully. When I bought one of y 335s, one of the saddle adjustment screws had popped up out of the frame and caused terrible tuning instability. I took the bridge off, and applied pressure with a flat-blade screwdriver to reseat the screw in the frame and it's been perfect ever since. Not a problem with the Nashville bridge, but it can be a real head-scratcher with the ABR-1.

Finally, the frets should be checked that they are firmly seated and then leveled and crowned , if needed. The newer Gibsons are Pleked and are usually very good, but occasionally one gets through that is less than ideal.

Pickup adjustment can be somewhat of a black art. I tend to have the Classic '57 pickups set lower on my 335s, with the pole-pieces raised, to give a slightly clearer tone. And then I try to balance neck and bridge for equal volume. Small adjustments can make big changes.

There are different models of these guitars, and they have made some spec changes over the last few years. I like the '57 Classics in my 335s, but some of the newer guitars use a different set. Some folks like the MHS pickups, and some don't. The ABR-1 bridge is traditional on a 335, but I'm seeing new guitars come with Nashville bridges.

Set up can be tricky, and going by the book doesn't always give the best results. It seems that each one of my guitars has a sweet spot, a point where it plays the best, regardless of where I think it should be. Remember how I said I like a little extra relief and 10-46 strings? Well, got a couple that play best with an almost flat fingerboard, and a couple that have a preference for 9-46 strings. You kinda have to develop a feel for what's right, listen to what the guitar is telling you and throw out the instruction manual.

BTW, I would love to see pictures of this guitar and I'd love to know what year it is. Who knows, maybe I need another 335, LOL!

Good luck!

Bill
 
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Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

Bill I appreciate that advice very much. I do think the pickups are set too high and I am going to try messing with that some. The ABR has been swapped out for a Nashville on advice of one tech, to address intonation issues. That was a positive change.

The other tech I went to for its most recent setup just set the action a little too low for me. These days it's like you say, I seem to be hitting and bending harder, such that I have even considered going to 11s instead of 10s for strings. The tip about filing the nut makes a lot of sense because the guitar requires a very light touch at the lower frets to avoid going out of tune.

Tone wise, style wise and feel wise I am good with a 335. It looks bettter on the wall than it does on me, but that would be true for any guitar. :p

I think I am going to try to work out some issues with it. I have the idea that I might also try a pickup swap for a Duncan WLH set and an out of phase push/pull mod. I just need to bite the bullet and go for it. I actually like the 57s OK but have heard WLH are supposed to pair well with 335s.

I will try to post some pics here when I can get some decent ones.
 
Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

Every guitar is not a gem despite the name on the headstock. A 335 is an expensive guitar not to like. I say you sell it and start looking for something that blows you away.
 
Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

This is the guitar in question. As you can see it is a very nice looking 335 even from my poor photos. I took the pickguard off recently, cause it was bugging me.

I lowered the pickups and logged some time this morning. It helped, I still am getting a lot of what I would consider "string noise" or "pick noise" - a really hard attack or snap to the sound, and the bridge pickup sounded harsh with too much treble to my ears. The neck pickup behaves better. They are stock Gibson '57s. So I have wondered if a WLH set will mellow the guitar slightly, especially in the bridge position. For what it's worth, it played very nicely this morning. It's like it can tell I am saying mean things about it.

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Re: Ever have a guitar that just won't....

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but can you do an Out of phase wiring mod with Seths? Like with a push-pull toggle on the tone knob for example.

I have heard WLHs are great in 335s but I am concerned as it seems like a higher output pickup than the Seth.
 
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