Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

[ElectricGypsy]

Hi, I've an ESP Horizon FR and I feel that bending and vibrato are really stiff with this guitar, I've always had this kind of feeling with all the guitar equipped with the Floyd Rose. Not only bending and vibrato are very stiff they are also very difficult to control, every guitar with this bridge always seems unfriendly to me. Now I'm thinking to buy an Ibanez with an Edge Zero to replace the ESP, everybody says that the Edge bridge is softer than the Floyd Rose, so the question is: do you think that in general the Ibanez guitars are softer than the guitars eqipped with the Floyd Rose ? Maybe ther's no so much difference ? I don't care so much about the differences in the arm action, I'm more interested in the general feeling of the guitar especially as regards bending and vibrato. I hope I've explained myself...I'm looking forward to hear your opinions :headbang:

 

[mzmo]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

If I'm reading you correctly, you're talking about the ease of string bending and finger vibrato, right? If so then my first thought is that this is always a bit of a compromise on fulcrum vibrato bridges because if you like an easy whammy bar action then you have less springs or looser springs. That will mean less resistance when you bend, so it's more difficult to bend to pitch and hold it. It makes those country bends where you bend up on the B string but hold a note on the high E super hard too.

You can try decking the bridge to make it easier for bending, but IMHO nothing makes for a slinkier feel than top wrapping a Tune-o-matic fixed bridge--just raising the break angle changes that whole feel. Unfortunately it's not something you can do on either a FR or Edge or even a regular 2 or 6 point vibrato bridge.

 

[ElectricGypsy]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

If I'm reading you correctly, you're talking about the ease of string bending and finger vibrato, right? If so then my first thought is that this is always a bit of a compromise on fulcrum vibrato bridges because if you like an easy whammy bar action then you have less springs or looser springs. That will mean less resistance when you bend, so it's more difficult to bend to pitch and hold it. It makes those country bends where you bend up on the B string but hold a note on the high E super hard too.

You can try decking the bridge to make it easier for bending, but IMHO nothing makes for a slinkier feel than top wrapping a Tune-o-matic fixed bridge--just raising the break angle changes that whole feel. Unfortunately it's not something you can do on either a FR or Edge or even a regular 2 or 6 point vibrato bridge.

Right, my problem is the excessive strength needed to bend the strings especially the first string, but really not so much the strength it's more the effort to hold the bending and also I can't do the same type of vibrato that I can do with a fixed bridge....the Floyd Rose makes all too complicated everything seems like "blocked and plasticky"; I've always love the "superstrat" guitars but in the end I've never been able to get to the point where you've the perfect feeling with the guitar so I keep selling and buying different brand of the same type of guitar, but now I start to believe that the real problem is not the brand but the general feeling that the Floyd Rose give to the guitar and now, because of what you've said, I think that all the double locking bridges may be the real problem. I thounght that the Edge might save me, but as days go by I think that if I want to solve this problem I've to say goodbye to the double locking bridge...and I'm even not too sure that for example a more traditional trem would make a uge difference compared to the double locking. I'm so confused

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

That's more related to block size than trem type. The edge block will be shorter in most cases and will thus have a completely different feel. Same block they will still feel different, but not nearly as big of a difference.

 

[Aku Tonklips]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

An E3 and a rose is generally the same feel, just that sometimes E3s have softer spring tension than a regular tremolo, buts it's a little better to understand and work with. I know I broke mine the day I bought it and didn't get to really enjoy and play around with it but string bends are easily achieved on a 12 and 15 so it may work for you.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

I have the Edge III
I like it

there is a version of the Edge Zero that I have seen on the Used shelf at GC
that has ball bearings at the pivot point
the bearings had a catch or stiff spot that seemed difficult to repair or replace
I was not impressed

the counter balanced part seemed nice
where it was supposed to return to a "zero" point
great idea poor implementation

my two cent

 

[mzmo]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

IME if you deck the bridge you can still use the whammy bar and dive bomb while being able to do the big bends, but you won't be able to pull up on the bar. I can get big bends on my floating whammy setups but it does take a little extra strength to get to pitch and control it. And, as I said for the bend and fret a note on another string, you have to bend that string also up to pitch. You have less spring strength pulling the string back so your hand has to compensate with more strength. No fulcrum vibrato bridge will give you much difference in operation (Floyd, Edge, Fender, Wilkinson, etc.). A Bigsby will hold tune but then you have that set of limitations. A Kahler might be the answer for you? Or a Tremol-no?

The Kahler is a different, cam system so it might work better for your needs. The Tremol-no blocks the trem so the guitar operates like a fixed bridge until you release the Tremol-no, then it operates normally.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

IME if you deck the bridge you can still use the whammy bar and dive bomb while being able to do the big bends, but you won't be able to pull up on the bar. I can get big bends on my floating whammy setups but it does take a little extra strength to get to pitch and control it. And, as I said for the bend and fret a note on another string, you have to bend that string also up to pitch. You have less spring strength pulling the string back so your hand has to compensate with more strength. No fulcrum vibrato bridge will give you much difference in operation (Floyd, Edge, Fender, Wilkinson, etc.). A Bigsby will hold tune but then you have that set of limitations. A Kahler might be the answer for you? Or a Tremol-no?

The Kahler is a different, cam system so it might work better for your needs. The Tremol-no blocks the trem so the guitar operates like a fixed bridge until you release the Tremol-no, then it operates normally.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I hope you aren't suggesting Decking a Floyd style bridge

some of the Charvels are top mounted and may be able to be decked

but the Edge and most all other Floyd style bridges can't be decked
as the "deck" is removed
you can put a block in the spring cavity

in my buddy's floyd
he wanted a block and we made one out of a piece of angle iron

recipe:

1 inch angle 3/16 inch thick
cut a section of angle about 1/2 inch wide
drill two small holes for mounting the angle to the cavity
drill and thread another hole close to the bend in the upright section to (10-32)
cut off the portion of the upright above the threaded hole
go the the hardware store get
2 drywall screw 3/4 inch long
get one 10-32 set screw one inch long

now run the set screw in half way of the angle
place in cavity to find the proper spot
mark holes for drywall screws
remove set screw and install angle to cavity where marked
reinstall the set screw to touch trem block

done

 

[ElectricGypsy]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

I prefer to keep it as a full floating bridge because I use it like it has been made for be used I'm looking for a solution... maybe I could switch to 09-42 insted of 010-46 which I use now, but this idea doesn't seems right to me, at the end I'll lose too much tone I know So now as I see it I can give a chance to the Edge Zero or live with it and leave everything as it is....

 

[greekdude]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

I prefer to keep it as a full floating bridge because I use it like it has been made for be used I'm looking for a solution... maybe I could switch to 09-42 insted of 010-46 which I use now, but this idea doesn't seems right to me, at the end I'll lose too much tone I know So now as I see it I can give a chance to the Edge Zero or live with it and leave everything as it is....

floating trems were designed in the 80s, where everybody was using 9s. As far as edge vs OFR, all I can say is that at level position : tension of strings = tension of springs. For a given string gauge and guitar scale this will be the same with either OFR or Edge, right? Hence the softness while bending will be the same. String action also contributes to the general feel. Lower action makes for soother feel.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

IMO the best design is a recessed Floyd since the neck sits parallel with the body, allowing you to get very low action very easily.

With top mounted Floyds you have to either precisely route the neck angle for the preferred action- something most guitar manufacturers don't do, or resort to shimming the neck pocket, as well a the Floyd to get proper action

 

[ElectricGypsy]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

floating trems were designed in the 80s, where everybody was using 9s. As far as edge vs OFR, all I can say is that at level position : tension of strings = tension of springs. For a given string gauge and guitar scale this will be the same with either OFR or Edge, right? Hence the softness while bending will be the same. String action also contributes to the general feel. Lower action makes for soother feel.

So you think that even if I buy an Ibanez with an Edge Zero with the same strings gauge I'll have the same problem that I've now with the ESP....

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

Give it up....
It is just chasing your own tail here!
Or get a good tech to setup your guitar.

 

[ElectricGypsy]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

Give it up....
It is just chasing your own tail here!
Or get a good tech to setup your guitar.

I already have a very good tech. I think you're right. I'll give up with floating trems, or maybe at least with the double locking ones. There's no other solution....

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

Yeah maybe....or it can be minding it too much, that will almost automaticly make it feel much worse than it is.
And playing guitar is all about feeling it Sometimes it just does not help...hehe yeah...I know the feeling of getting worked up over an instrument!
Some guitars are just stiff, that ESP is a neckthrough right??
Most of those are rather stiff in their feel, vibrator equipped or not.

It is also a matter of springs, sometimes four soft ones feels better than three stiff ones!
Floyds are not just plug and play, they take some time to get right.
And the guitar needs to be stable as well, a soft neck is horrible with a Floyd, and a too stiff neck is just horrible in any way, dead stick as I call them!

And by the sound of it, you should try a few other options
Maybe try some other strings, your fave brand might not be right for this particular instrument.
All my guitars have different strings most of the time, or works best with a certain set.

Sometimes it just takes some work to get it right.
Stuff does not always just click in right away!
Good luck with the guitars.

 

[mzmo]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

Yes, the short version of what I was trying to say is that no fulcrum vibrato bridge (i.e. Fender Strat, Floyd, Edge, PRS, Wilkinson) can avoid this problem. Bigsbys and Kahlers are two vibrato systems that can avoid this problem, i.e. increased difficulty/harder feel in string bending and finger vibrato. I use floating bridges a lot (granted I gave up with Floyds years ago in favor of the two-point knife edge type system) and the way I basically deal with it, since I don't want to use a Tremol-no is really just a technique thing where I kind of hold the bridge down with my picking hand. I use the edge of my hand and apply pressure, which more or less keeps the bridge in place during the bends. You have to be careful only to apply pressure during bends, otherwise you'd obviously pull yourself sharp all the time. With a little practice, it's not too hard to get and it becomes second nature after a while. It does limit your picking to a place near the bridge though, so again, it's a compromise.

You don't need to change the guitar if you like the tone of it, although as the guy noted above that you can't deck a non-top mounted Floyd/Edge, you should still be able to block it inside the cavity. You'd only be able to whammy down and no flutter effects, but you'll get all your string bendy goodness.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

So you think that even if I buy an Ibanez with an Edge Zero with the same strings gauge I'll have the same problem that I've now with the ESP....

if this is same scale, same strings gauge, non-ZPS, then definitely. ZPS is a more complicated beast. Also what some other poster wrote about 3 stiff springs vs 4 soft ones is correct. If you like your guitar's sound, then no need to buy someth else.

 

[ElectricGypsy]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

Yeah maybe....or it can be minding it too much, that will almost automaticly make it feel much worse than it is.
And playing guitar is all about feeling it Sometimes it just does not help...hehe yeah...I know the feeling of getting worked up over an instrument!
Some guitars are just stiff, that ESP is a neckthrough right??
Most of those are rather stiff in their feel, vibrator equipped or not.

It is also a matter of springs, sometimes four soft ones feels better than three stiff ones!
Floyds are not just plug and play, they take some time to get right.
And the guitar needs to be stable as well, a soft neck is horrible with a Floyd, and a too stiff neck is just horrible in any way, dead stick as I call them!

And by the sound of it, you should try a few other options
Maybe try some other strings, your fave brand might not be right for this particular instrument.
All my guitars have different strings most of the time, or works best with a certain set.

Sometimes it just takes some work to get it right.
Stuff does not always just click in right away!
Good luck with the guitars.

Yes, the short version of what I was trying to say is that no fulcrum vibrato bridge (i.e. Fender Strat, Floyd, Edge, PRS, Wilkinson) can avoid this problem. Bigsbys and Kahlers are two vibrato systems that can avoid this problem, i.e. increased difficulty/harder feel in string bending and finger vibrato. I use floating bridges a lot (granted I gave up with Floyds years ago in favor of the two-point knife edge type system) and the way I basically deal with it, since I don't want to use a Tremol-no is really just a technique thing where I kind of hold the bridge down with my picking hand. I use the edge of my hand and apply pressure, which more or less keeps the bridge in place during the bends. You have to be careful only to apply pressure during bends, otherwise you'd obviously pull yourself sharp all the time. With a little practice, it's not too hard to get and it becomes second nature after a while. It does limit your picking to a place near the bridge though, so again, it's a compromise.

You don't need to change the guitar if you like the tone of it, although as the guy noted above that you can't deck a non-top mounted Floyd/Edge, you should still be able to block it inside the cavity. You'd only be able to whammy down and no flutter effects, but you'll get all your string bendy goodness.

Yes, the ESP is neck thru. After a year during which I tried to get used to it I still have this general feeling of stiffness and plasticity, I really think that this guitar doesn't suit me very well; everytime I play it's more like a "war" against problems....

if this is same scale, same strings gauge, non-ZPS, then definitely. ZPS is a more complicated beast. Also what some other poster wrote about 3 stiff springs vs 4 soft ones is correct. If you like your guitar's sound, then no need to buy someth else.

Actually the Ibanez that I've in mind has an Edge Zero with the ZPS. Also the sound is a part of the problem, I've been thinking to change the pickups since a long time....the guitar as an ash body and now I believe that maybe would be better to come back to my perfect match, my holy grail of tone: mahogany + maple. Ash is a wonderful tonewood, but maybe for my taste it's better on a Strat not on this type of guitar or at list it's not the top for what I'd like to have now....

 

[greekdude]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

Hhmmm there are some mahogany RGs also some alder JEMs, but the norm is basswood body. If you like shredding/boosted mids basswood/maple/rosewood is a great combo. Is this Edge Zero *OR* Edge Zero II?? Now about wars against problems, there is no guarantee that the Ibanez will be totally flawless, it might have problems as well. You will struggle really hard with the ZPS to master it, but once you do, it might prove better for you than an ordinary double locking.

 

[ElectricGypsy]

Re: Floyd Rose vs Ibanez Edge: let's share your experience

Hhmmm there are some mahogany RGs also some alder JEMs, but the norm is basswood body. If you like shredding/boosted mids basswood/maple/rosewood is a great combo. Is this Edge Zero *OR* Edge Zero II?? Now about wars against problems, there is no guarantee that the Ibanez will be totally flawless, it might have problems as well. You will struggle really hard with the ZPS to master it, but once you do, it might prove better for you than an ordinary double locking.

There're 2 guitars among them I'm undecided: Ibanez RG3770FZ and RG2560ZEX. The first has mahogany/maple body H-S-H configuration and super Wizard HP neck, the second has ash body H-S-S configuration and a Wizard HP neck both have an Edge Zero ZPS "OR". They're pretty different, both have pros and cons...it's not a easy choice