greenbacks/marshall 1960
- Thread starter ken361
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YellowJacket
New member
Re: greenbacks/marshall 1960
They are a louder, tighter, and more articulate speaker than the G12m but equally nice and creamy. My brother swapped out the stock MC90 in his Lonestar Special and put in a G12H Heritage. He absolutely loves the warm vintage vibe.
They are a louder, tighter, and more articulate speaker than the G12m but equally nice and creamy. My brother swapped out the stock MC90 in his Lonestar Special and put in a G12H Heritage. He absolutely loves the warm vintage vibe.
YellowJacket
New member
Re: greenbacks/marshall 1960
AWESOME!
Hey, did you buy two or four? You put them in a 4 x 12, right? Believe me, you'll definitely hear the difference when you turn the amp up! They sound absolutely fantastic!
Did you figure out the ohmage rating and all the wiring crap? You can google Series Parallel 4 x 12 if you have any questions.
Basically, series parallel looks like:
+ ------------ - G12m + ------------ - G12m + -------- -
+ ------------ - G12m + ------------ - G12m + -------- -
where the two + wires are hooked to the + on the speaker jack and the two - wires are hooked to the - on the speaker jack. Definitely double check the wiring and ohmage on your speakers to make sure you don't cook your tubes or worse, your output transformer. If you're not careful, you may inadvertently be upgrading to a Mercury Magnetics model!
AWESOME!
Hey, did you buy two or four? You put them in a 4 x 12, right? Believe me, you'll definitely hear the difference when you turn the amp up! They sound absolutely fantastic!
Did you figure out the ohmage rating and all the wiring crap? You can google Series Parallel 4 x 12 if you have any questions.
Basically, series parallel looks like:
+ ------------ - G12m + ------------ - G12m + -------- -
+ ------------ - G12m + ------------ - G12m + -------- -
where the two + wires are hooked to the + on the speaker jack and the two - wires are hooked to the - on the speaker jack. Definitely double check the wiring and ohmage on your speakers to make sure you don't cook your tubes or worse, your output transformer. If you're not careful, you may inadvertently be upgrading to a Mercury Magnetics model!
YellowJacket
New member
Re: greenbacks/marshall 1960
From Celestion's site:
"How do I break in my speakers?
Important Note! Before breaking it in it's advisable to "warm up" the speaker gently for a few minutes with low-level playing or background hum.
Break in a speaker with a fat, clean tone: turn up the power amp volume to full, and control the level with the preamp gain. Use a level that will be quite loud, but not painful in a normal size room.
Have the bass and mid up full, and the treble at least half. On your guitar, use the middle pick up position (if your guitar has more than one pick up) and play for 10-15 minutes using lots of open chords, and chunky percussive playing. This will get the cone moving, and should excite all the cone modes and get everything to settle in nicely. The speaker will continue to mature over the years, but this will get it 95% of the way to tonal perfection in the shortest time."
The G12T 75s blend nicely with G12ms? I've actually never tried this combination so I am curious. You can eventually swap out the entire quartet or you may find you like things this way better. HAVE FUN!
From Celestion's site:
"How do I break in my speakers?
Important Note! Before breaking it in it's advisable to "warm up" the speaker gently for a few minutes with low-level playing or background hum.
Break in a speaker with a fat, clean tone: turn up the power amp volume to full, and control the level with the preamp gain. Use a level that will be quite loud, but not painful in a normal size room.
Have the bass and mid up full, and the treble at least half. On your guitar, use the middle pick up position (if your guitar has more than one pick up) and play for 10-15 minutes using lots of open chords, and chunky percussive playing. This will get the cone moving, and should excite all the cone modes and get everything to settle in nicely. The speaker will continue to mature over the years, but this will get it 95% of the way to tonal perfection in the shortest time."
The G12T 75s blend nicely with G12ms? I've actually never tried this combination so I am curious. You can eventually swap out the entire quartet or you may find you like things this way better. HAVE FUN!
ken361
New member
Re: greenbacks/marshall 1960
they seem to blend just fine so far at bedroom playing. I noticed the g12t75 work good with clean channel sparkle, now with the greens it takes a little top end off but its all good. also scored a Peterson strobe tuner thursday! always have a perfect pitch, there 200 new i bought mine for 135 and does many of things.
they seem to blend just fine so far at bedroom playing. I noticed the g12t75 work good with clean channel sparkle, now with the greens it takes a little top end off but its all good. also scored a Peterson strobe tuner thursday! always have a perfect pitch, there 200 new i bought mine for 135 and does many of things.
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MetalManiac
Li'l Junior Member
Re: greenbacks/marshall 1960
Again, there is no such word as "ohmage"..the word you want is "impedance".
Also , for some reason you want to try and determine how to figure out ohmage by some cryptic method of typing and describing how they look or opening the back and looking or some sign from aliens; you need to test with a meter from a leads hooked into the output jack
Go to the Celestion website and find the wiring diagrams that show actual round things representing speakers and lines representing wires, and telling you the impedance for series parallel with the impedance speakers you have , or look for other diagrams for series or parallel
Also Ive never heard of people running G12-75's with Greenbacks. That would an an awefull mismatch IMO. Ive heard of Emi V12's or the Celestion equivalent being used with some sucsess.
Lastly , you seem to thinkthat "smooth and creamy" is the end all be all for Greenbacks/G12H/30' tone.
Granted, they can be smooth sounding with a real smooth sounding amp, but the last thing I want from my Marshall 4x12 Greenback loaded cabinets with my Marshall 2204 or most of the amps I have, is for them to sound too smooth and creamy like a Hempcone. Im looking for a raw, edgy, bright ,crunchy and punchy sound.
Again, there is no such word as "ohmage"..the word you want is "impedance".
Also , for some reason you want to try and determine how to figure out ohmage by some cryptic method of typing and describing how they look or opening the back and looking or some sign from aliens; you need to test with a meter from a leads hooked into the output jack
Go to the Celestion website and find the wiring diagrams that show actual round things representing speakers and lines representing wires, and telling you the impedance for series parallel with the impedance speakers you have , or look for other diagrams for series or parallel
Also Ive never heard of people running G12-75's with Greenbacks. That would an an awefull mismatch IMO. Ive heard of Emi V12's or the Celestion equivalent being used with some sucsess.
Lastly , you seem to thinkthat "smooth and creamy" is the end all be all for Greenbacks/G12H/30' tone.
Granted, they can be smooth sounding with a real smooth sounding amp, but the last thing I want from my Marshall 4x12 Greenback loaded cabinets with my Marshall 2204 or most of the amps I have, is for them to sound too smooth and creamy like a Hempcone. Im looking for a raw, edgy, bright ,crunchy and punchy sound.
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YellowJacket
New member
Re: greenbacks/marshall 1960
OK, I'll bite.
Yes, the correct word is impedance, thanks for that.
I don't know about you, but I like to trust that they place the correct labels on their speakers. The only ways the impedance would be off is if the labels were wrong or one of the speakers was cooked. i.e. the voice coil is damaged.
Yes, tone is subjective. I was trying to describe the relative colouristic (I'm allowed to add 'U's everywhere, I'm Canadian) effect of Greenbacks in relationship to other Celestion speakers assuming the same guitar, pickups, amp settings, and cabinet. When compared to a G12T - 75; Greenbacks, v30s, and Classic Lead 80s are all creamier. i.e. none of them have *as* aggressive highs. In relation to all the speakers listed above, v30s have very little cone breakup and an aggressive high mid spike. This does not mean they cannot break up or that they cannot achieve a scooped tone. This is simply a comparison for the sake of explaining how one common Celestion speaker model will colour tone in relation to another one, assuming all other variables are static. The idea here is to help Ken361 make a purchase thereby achieving the sound he wants; not to prattle on about the subjective nature of tone and the practical application of a digital multimeter in determining the impedance of speakers with a label on the magnet.
Anyway, I think you have fallen prey to the classic pitfall: http://xkcd.com/386/
I hope this post clears up what I am trying to say, have a good night.
Geez . . .
OK, I'll bite.
Yes, the correct word is impedance, thanks for that.
Usually, Celestion affixes a label to the back of the speaker magnet that has all the relevant information written on it. Provided someone can read, this is a quick and easy way to see what a speaker cabinet is loaded with. Not everyone has the correct electrical equipment on hand to run the sort of tests you are talking about.
I don't know about you, but I like to trust that they place the correct labels on their speakers. The only ways the impedance would be off is if the labels were wrong or one of the speakers was cooked. i.e. the voice coil is damaged.
"I" know how to wire speaker cabinets. I have done wiring modifications involving a switch to select between different speakers in a 4 x 12 and I have also built my own cabs. Furthermore, I have experimented with running two power tubes in a 100watt head (the joys of owning a Mesa) as well as hooking up cabs with series and parallel boxes. Determining impedance for speakers is a matter of simple arithmetic, not rocket science. I was trying to be helpful.
How is that a mismatch? It would only be so if one model of speakers was rated at a different impedance than the other. Yes, you might not like the tonal outcome of that combination but it does not mean it will not have success musically for someone else.
Yes, tone is subjective. I was trying to describe the relative colouristic (I'm allowed to add 'U's everywhere, I'm Canadian) effect of Greenbacks in relationship to other Celestion speakers assuming the same guitar, pickups, amp settings, and cabinet. When compared to a G12T - 75; Greenbacks, v30s, and Classic Lead 80s are all creamier. i.e. none of them have *as* aggressive highs. In relation to all the speakers listed above, v30s have very little cone breakup and an aggressive high mid spike. This does not mean they cannot break up or that they cannot achieve a scooped tone. This is simply a comparison for the sake of explaining how one common Celestion speaker model will colour tone in relation to another one, assuming all other variables are static. The idea here is to help Ken361 make a purchase thereby achieving the sound he wants; not to prattle on about the subjective nature of tone and the practical application of a digital multimeter in determining the impedance of speakers with a label on the magnet.
Anyway, I think you have fallen prey to the classic pitfall: http://xkcd.com/386/
I hope this post clears up what I am trying to say, have a good night.
Fikealox
New member
ken361
New member
Re: greenbacks/marshall 1960
thanks for sticking up
when I posted this nobody really seemed it would be a bad move. I knew greenbacks were good sounding speakers and proved worthy by the top guitarist. I heard many not caring for the v30 because the fuzziness. The greens are a classic rock speaker from Jimi to EVH. It says it has the brown tone! thats what I like. The G12t75 are a rock/metal type speaker so I think maybe the 2 greens might work because of old school and new school. Well at lower volumes it does really good, maybe not at high I need to experiment with that. The two greens seem to smooth my tone for the better, not awhole lot but I can tell and it not even worse one bit!. It Kind of tames the g12's a bit for the better.
thanks for sticking up
when I posted this nobody really seemed it would be a bad move. I knew greenbacks were good sounding speakers and proved worthy by the top guitarist. I heard many not caring for the v30 because the fuzziness. The greens are a classic rock speaker from Jimi to EVH. It says it has the brown tone! thats what I like. The G12t75 are a rock/metal type speaker so I think maybe the 2 greens might work because of old school and new school. Well at lower volumes it does really good, maybe not at high I need to experiment with that. The two greens seem to smooth my tone for the better, not awhole lot but I can tell and it not even worse one bit!. It Kind of tames the g12's a bit for the better.
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: greenbacks/marshall 1960
I don't think its a bad move. The G12T75's have a big bottom response. The G12M's don't. They are both about the same loudness, so one doesn't overide the other, which would be more the case with V30's or G12H's. The G12M and G12T may work well together, because your going get more bottom end than you would with all G12M's, and the nicer highs of the G12M's will tame some of the aggressive in your face treble of the G12T, especially if the G12T's are closer to the floor. If EVH is your tonal refrence then keep in mind that the G12M GB is the speaker he used and uses. The G12M GB is still capable of some bite and agression if needed too.
I don't think its a bad move. The G12T75's have a big bottom response. The G12M's don't. They are both about the same loudness, so one doesn't overide the other, which would be more the case with V30's or G12H's. The G12M and G12T may work well together, because your going get more bottom end than you would with all G12M's, and the nicer highs of the G12M's will tame some of the aggressive in your face treble of the G12T, especially if the G12T's are closer to the floor. If EVH is your tonal refrence then keep in mind that the G12M GB is the speaker he used and uses. The G12M GB is still capable of some bite and agression if needed too.
ken361
New member
YellowJacket
New member
Re: greenbacks/marshall 1960
You wouldn't think there was a difference. Have you tried changing the wiring scheme using appropriately aged speakers and then comparing the results? New cabs sound thin and harsh because the new speakers haven't been appropriately broken in yet. (Gotta test for potential confounds)
Just to clarify, series /parallel would have one speaker wire leaving the jack, going to the speakers, and returning; while parallel / series would have two speaker wires leaving the jack, going to the speakers and returning. This would definitely be an interesting test to try, I must say I am curious. Perhaps the wiring scheme affects current flow through the speaker wires? Anyone else have experience with this?
http://www.soundcitysite.com/sc_webpages/parallel_series.pdf
http://www.soundcitysite.com/sc_webpages/series_parallel.pdf
You wouldn't think there was a difference. Have you tried changing the wiring scheme using appropriately aged speakers and then comparing the results? New cabs sound thin and harsh because the new speakers haven't been appropriately broken in yet. (Gotta test for potential confounds)
Just to clarify, series /parallel would have one speaker wire leaving the jack, going to the speakers, and returning; while parallel / series would have two speaker wires leaving the jack, going to the speakers and returning. This would definitely be an interesting test to try, I must say I am curious. Perhaps the wiring scheme affects current flow through the speaker wires? Anyone else have experience with this?
http://www.soundcitysite.com/sc_webpages/parallel_series.pdf
http://www.soundcitysite.com/sc_webpages/series_parallel.pdf
