Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

[Chris Pile]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

Gibson USA is not the only manufacturer that is experiencing declining sales.

Do you people ever READ the press releases in these stories?
Gibson guitar sales are UP almost 10 percent - they are NOT declining.

Gibson Brands - the conglomerate consists of the following companies, and a great many of them ARE NOT doing well in the marketplace.

Gibson Guitars / Cerwin-Vega / Cakewalk (just sold) / Baldwin / Dobro / Epiphone / Esoteric / Integra / Kramer / KRK Systems / Maestro / Onkyo / Stanton / Steinberger / Tascam / Teac / Tobias

Read this stuff and UNDERSTAND before you post something stupid or just a lie, OK?

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

I'm comfused, are you an employee?


If you do work for Gibson and need someone to do focus groups done RIGHT, let me know, I have some experience in the field and could make that happen

Hello Adieu-

Sounds like we have a lot in common-
I'm a business analyst, writer and have managed very large technology portfolios- CMO for one of the early DAW manufacturers and lifelong musician- I won't dig into detail, you can look me up on LI-

Sounds like you haven't had a chance to read the Saving Gibson series, but we break out voice of the customer, persona and market development, product roadmaping, messaging, channel, biz dev and the analytics that make informed decision making possible- we cover the entire business improvement development cycle and tie in 6 sigma for the manufacturing side. Take a look, always interested in well informed feedback!

Of course persona-centric focus groups are a part of the process (good example is the Telecaster+L5 concept test in Part IV), and it is an important early step, but focus groups in themselves can easily take you down the wrong bunny trail- optimizing the product cycle requires testing throughout- again would appreciate feedback.

As far as working for Gibson, that makes me laugh, because we get so much push back from the "we love Gibson no mater what they do" segments. Check out the series and you will see that we've focused on basic business transformation principals that Gibson needs to regain footing.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/gibson-guitars-how-save-iconic-american-brand-10-steps-stierhoff/

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

No.... a sociopath. There's a diff.

Yeah, I didn't want to go there... I've heard tales from people who have worked there, but I'll keep those to myself. There are more than enough used Gibson's out there. Let the brand die.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

Gibson got Millions in Tax relief and are still on Corporate Welfare.

Got any proof before you post?
I say you're a liar.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

The "Tax Cuts" were suppose to Launch Corporations into the Stratosphere Economically so it would all trickle down to us Charlie Browns in anywhere USA. Hmmmm lots of Companies are going **** up. Could it be the Politicians were lying ?

Gibson got Millions in Tax relief and are still on Corporate Welfare.

Nothing to see here, move along ...

So many things that I could say, and they might even be worth the infraction, except for the fact that you still wouldn't get it.
I'll leave it at that.

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[Demanic]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

No.... a sociopath. There's a diff.

There's plenty of them to go around.

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[67Mopar]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

So many things that I could say, and they might even be worth the infraction, except for the fact that you still wouldn't get it.
I'll leave it at that.

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

Actually, you should not receive an infraction. Economics is not associated with politics in a Capitalist system. Not in a real Capitalist system anyway...

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

Do you people ever READ the press releases in these stories?
Gibson guitar sales are UP almost 10 percent - they are NOT declining.

Gibson Brands - the conglomerate consists of the following companies, and a great many of them ARE NOT doing well in the marketplace.

Gibson Guitars / Cerwin-Vega / Cakewalk (just sold) / Baldwin / Dobro / Epiphone / Esoteric / Integra / Kramer / KRK Systems / Maestro / Onkyo / Stanton / Steinberger / Tascam / Teac / Tobias

Read this stuff and UNDERSTAND before you post something stupid or just a lie, OK?

ICTGoober, I've enjoyed your posts on this topic and appreciate your perspective- If Gibson could magically disappear debt, the brand is still strong enough that they would be profitable- But we're talking mid $100Ms at best- bigger than Martin, much smaller than Fender and not even a bump on Yamaha's spreadsheets-

So assuming that positive income stream is possible, the far bigger question is how did Gibson get here and how well will they do in the future? I could repost the SWOT list behind our series, but the bottom line is that Gibson has lost significant brand value, marketshare and mindshare for the many reasons we have explored. The bottom line is there are simply few dealers who even have Gibson on the wall, while Ibanez, Yamaha, Fender and PRS are well represented.

So, if Gibson disinvests well, will they still be around? Sure that it likely- we covered this scenario in Part I.

Will they grow and become a strong leader of industry, growing markets and opening doors for new musicians? That appears rather unlikely unless they are willing to adopt basic business processes to avoid the bad decisions that appear endemic.

And if they don't change, a painful decline with future Asian acquisition is likely- not good for all the usual competitive reasons.

Bottom line, CH11 is an incredible time for change management where they could fix real and perceived problems. However, thus far, all we are seeing (and hearing from those in the trenches) is spin and that's not a great way to get the clothes back on the emperor-

Again, no disrespect intended, I appreciate your perspective- you represent the "Gibson's not dead" perspective that many on the other side need to consider.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that Gibson will survive, but Henry needs to GO, and right fricking now. I trust the new owners to get the company back on track, securing the continuing legacy of Gibson Guitars. It will be a tough row to hoe thanks to the stupidity of Henry.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

Actually, you should not receive an infraction. Economics is not associated with politics in a Capitalist system. Not in a real Capitalist system anyway...

Well, structured economics isn't, I'll give you that. I'll also agree that pure capitalism doesn't involve politics. But since that doesn't exist, that pretty much ends this discussion.

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[zionstrat]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that Gibson will survive, but Henry needs to GO, and right fricking now. I trust the new owners to get the company back on track, securing the continuing legacy of Gibson Guitars. It will be a tough row to hoe thanks to the stupidity of Henry.

I hope you are right- but did you notice that Henry kept positioning himself as the CEO and future adviser in the article? Sure that's got to be some face savings, but the fact is that he is still out there spinning and creditors haven't reeled him in are not great signs of change which may not reflect well on new owners...

The work Gibson has to do isn't rocket science- but it does take a lot of experience and so far they aren't talking about that work...

 

[Adieu]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

All great recommendations, but I'm afraid you're about 20 years too late. Gibson USA is not the only manufacturer that is experiencing declining sales. The issue is systemic. The democratization of music via internet, home recording, and the lack of support (non-promotion) of rock music has resulted in the death of the electric guitar. Industry survives through profit, of course. i.e. Capitalism. Capital removed = Industry collapse. Even if you have the capital, industry requires a market. Rock music is looked at as archaic "white people" music by promotional industry Progressives. As far as they are concerned, the sooner it is purged from the collective mindset, the better. Boutique builders can survive, but the era of large scale production is coming to a close. Even of there were a grassroots resurgence of rock music, there's no vehicle for promotion... other than YuteTube. If there were a promotional system, it wouldn't make any difference, as the yutes would simply rip-off the music via digital downloading. The DOJ refuses to give songwriters the same protections they give to book authors, so don't expect any help there.

There's a LOT of "white people" AND gibson is an extremely strong brand in Black, Hispanic, and Asian music communities... especially Asian.

Rappers? No...but they sell sneakers and shirts and headphones and turntables, not instruments.

ALSO... pop music charts don't include country music, which chart separately. Biggest selling ACTIVE music artist in America is GARTH BROOKS -- indeed very much A GUY WITH A GUITAR --- and not some kid married to/divorcing/planning to marry a Cardassian.... just fyi. And the fact that he's signed with Takamine not Gibson is just one of the many, many reasons why Gibson isnt doing as well as it could and should be.


PS Gibson is probably the most iconic brand in the biz and thus has the most potentially valuable name...since Fender tends to focus on more mass-market stuff and thus just doesn't sound quite as luxurious, while ESP lacks in history and is experiencing an identity crisis where it's flip-flopping between throwing the name on everything and trying to lux up by removing the name off everything under $3k. And then there's all the pointless in-fighting with industry "rival" Schecter (which is owned by the same person!).

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

There's a LOT of "white people" AND Gibson is an extremely strong brand in Black, Hispanic, and Asian music communities... especially Asian.

I regards to context, I singularly referred to the promotional industry, not Gibson USA. Gibson's target marketing demographics are unrelated. Manufacturers have continued mass production via speculation. The idea being that "rock will come back around", but it won't. It is not wanted, nor is welcome by agenda-driven social engineers. If that's not enough, commercial music has essentially become nothing more than SPAM to sell products. This became evident when U2 uploaded a new full album release to Apple iTunes, free of charge. "That's right! Buy a new iPod and get the latest U2 release for free!" F#ck-it... It's over.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

There's still plenty of good underground metal.

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[67Mopar]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

There's still plenty of good underground metal.

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The underground stuff was always the best. I still listen to Angel Witch!

 

[justFred]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

I regards to context, I singularly referred to the promotional industry, not Gibson USA. Gibson's target marketing demographics are unrelated. Manufacturers have continued mass production via speculation. The idea being that "rock will come back around", but it won't. It is not wanted, nor is welcome by agenda-driven social engineers. If that's not enough, commercial music has essentially become nothing more than SPAM to sell products. This became evident when U2 uploaded a new full album release to Apple iTunes, free of charge. "That's right! Buy a new iPod and get the latest U2 release for free!" F#ck-it... It's over.

what a deal...pay $300 for an MP3 player and get a Uwho upload for free!!!!

 

[Adieu]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

I regards to context, I singularly referred to the promotional industry, not Gibson USA. Gibson's target marketing demographics are unrelated. Manufacturers have continued mass production via speculation. The idea being that "rock will come back around", but it won't. It is not wanted, nor is welcome by agenda-driven social engineers. If that's not enough, commercial music has essentially become nothing more than SPAM to sell products. This became evident when U2 uploaded a new full album release to Apple iTunes, free of charge. "That's right! Buy a new iPod and get the latest U2 release for free!" F#ck-it... It's over.

So? That's like saying 80s pop is dead, who needs a Korg Triton anymore

Also, rock's alleged demise would hurt most other guitar brands harder. Gibson has strong associations with other genres, acoustic stuff, and live electric backing bands for pop vocalists

 

[67Mopar]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

So? That's like saying 80s pop is dead, who needs a Korg Triton anymore

I'm not up on the latest tech, but it seems most of what is out there is created via computer loops and auto-tune. Soon, whatever is left of the industry won't even need carbon-based (human) performers. Digitally generated holographic "performers" that don't require payment are inevitable.

 

[justFred]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

A couple of things:
"I am still going to be participating in Gibson and I’m still the CEO at this point. I will continue to aid Gibson for at least a couple more years" I think he made it clear he is leaving...I say again the very important missing piece is who is going to take the lead and what is that organization going to look like.

Has anyone tried contacting Gibson customer service to test his claim regarding standing behind the product...I called just as a test regarding my SG...got a representative within a couple of minutes...made up a story about a pickup acting intermittent...was referred to a local service center and told that the problem would be handled without charge...just a test but it seems like they have a good customer service organization in place...

He seems sensitive to the point that there was a time in 2007 - 2008 the Gibson lost sight of making quality a primary focus but they went and fixed that.

Does anyone have any hard data that demonstrates Gibson is turning out mostly low quality guitars?

Can anyone here provide data that refutes his claim that the guitar segment is strong and the problem lies in the acquired consumer electronics segment.

He saved Gibson 30+ years ago and had a 30+ year run...sounds like his big mistake was in buying into non core businesses and so BK is the only way to recover from that mistake. (yes, robot tuners among other things were problems in the guitar segment but those things combined would not force them into BK)

I like his commitment to a Gibson owned and run plant in China to build Epiphone models. The companies that I am familiar with that have been successful in China and Korea found out quickly that was the only way to ensure getting a consistently good product. It would appear they are doing that right.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Henry J talks the future of Gibson Guitars

Does anyone have any hard data that demonstrates Gibson is turning out mostly low quality guitars?

The problem with your question is the word MOSTLY. Of course, they are not MOSTLY low quality, but there is ample evidence in the marketplace that Gibson has a problem with quality control. I should know - I've worked on a number of them for clients.

And it doesn't take a high percentage of defects to cause a ripple, you understand? Even 3 percent is too darn much. Many of the problems I've seen are obvious, and that's cause for concern. You CANNOT let quality control slide, the bar has to be set HIGH across the board. Returns for service, complaints, etc., should be less than 1 guitar out of every 1000 that leaves the shipping dock. And Gibson should stand behind their product 100 percent - repair or refund, make the maximum effort to put a smile on EVERY owner out there.