How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

[MetalManiac]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

No to even mention the tilt adjustment found on a lot of Fenders...they still have some superb tones, even though the neck is tilted away from the body

But a shim and the Fender tilt adjustment arent ideal. Im not sayng it matters a whole hell of a lot, but Ive heard that on vintage 50's 60's strats , the necks have to be pried apart form the body with a crowbar..literally!.

 

[Varg]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

No, its a old ESP Strat body. Very Lightweight , and over 20 years old.
Also, on a Strat, there is considerable contact with neck heel and upper bout; about 3 inches ( the size of your wang ). It should make considerable vibration transfer, especially considering what percentage of overall contact it is in the entire neck-body contact .

((JK about the wang man..lol)

There may be a fair amount of contact between the neck heel and the upper bout, but not on the bottom there isnt. So, if your neck heel is a bit smaller than the pocket, just make sure it's hard against the upper bout.

And thanks for the compliment on the size of my wang, I appreciate it. :8:

 

[formula73]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

Tone is not something you can lose.

Tone describes the unique character of a sound. It's like a color. There's not "more color" or "less color," there are just different colors.

You people, with yer fancy 'lawgick' and 'opehn mahnds' jes make me sick.:cussing:

 

[WhoFan]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

here's the story of my 2 best strats...

1-2004ish Custom Shop 1966 Time Machine Closet Classic... neck to body joint is a perfect fit... nice like a glove... this guitar is quite bright! it has a great neck PU sound but the bridge PU is so bright i hardly use that PU... Yet i have yet to try different PU's

2-the warmest best sounding strat i have ever owned is a beat to snot 1988 American Standard with enough room beside the neck on both sides to put a medium pick in-between in the joint... that thing is alive and thick and warm... no matter what i do to it it for PU's it seems to always sound great

 

[Barron1]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

My spider sense is tingling , telling me its very important. Reason I'm wondering is that an Strat body I have , which is fairly nice in terms of lightweight, and aged Alder, has a neck pocket that is a little over sized for a normal 2 & 3/16th's (is it?) Normal Strat neck, and theres some slop.
Not that it wouldn't be stable with 4 neck screws , however I suppose its reasonable to assume a tight neck pocket is preferable.
I have a couple of guitars I had to really squeeze the neck into the heel, or pocket, even making a finish fracture in one of them, and it seems like this tight fit is best for tone, all things being equal.

It is critical to get maximum tone and sustain. You can always do what Richie Blackmore does which is glue the neck in with wood glue and put the screws back in.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

There is no way I would pay good money for a bolt-on with a loose neck pocket. A tight neck pocket is the staple of a quality bolt-on. When you play it unplugged, you not only can hear how it resonates throughout the body, you can feel it when you grab the upper horn or headstock. A gap in the neck pocket takes away sustain and overall resonance. I agree with Zeberus that it can make or break a strat deal.

 

[jalguitarman]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

I generally insist on a tight neck pocket. However I used to own an Ibanez RG3120 that had about 1/16 of and inch gap on either side of the neck pocket and yet it had awesome sustain and tone. A few years before I had an Ibanez Rg770 that that had a near perfect neck pocket and yet had about the sustain of a quick fart. I prefer it but it doesn't guarantee good sustain and tone. I have found that out.

 

[orpheo]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

A tight joint shows craftmanship,and has a better chance of giving great tone.

A sloppy joint can get you there, but if you build from scratch,or with parts,like warmoth or musikraft, a tight joint gives you more chance of a good tone + sustain.

In my opinion...

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

A tight joint shows craftmanship,and has a better chance of giving great tone.

A sloppy joint can get you there, but if you build from scratch,or with parts,like warmoth or musikraft, a tight joint gives you more chance of a good tone + sustain.

In my opinion...

Explain how it has a better chance of giving great tone? As long as the neck is bolted solid why would the neck pocket being tight make any difference at all?

 

[orpheo]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

If the joint is tight, there's less chance the neck will shift,thus less tuning issues.

A tight joint also means,automatically (imho) that the neckheel and pocket are deadlevel, with the most perfect flat areas to be joined.

More contactsurface, more place for vibrations to crossover between neck an body, and in theory, kore sustain,and pure tone.

In theory.

I have 17 bolt on les pauls (warmoth),with all of them a tight joint, and none of them has dead spots along the neck, bad sustain or bad tone and resonance. In fact, they sound,play and look better than any Gibson I've seen.


That's proof enough for me.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

How is that proof? For it to be proof you would need to establish that a loose pocket at the same time loses tone. A tight neck pocket does NOT mean that the pocket is dead level it means that the sides are tight. Its feasible to have a neck very tightly in the guitar and only have the sides touching.

If you have to pieces that are tightly bolted together adding more surface area isnt going to transmit more vibration. Look how many guitars have shimmed necks even fenders own neck tilt device.

So your saying all your les pauls are well made? ok but that doesnt answer the question of the neck pocket. Funny to compare them to a gibson les paul since we are talking bolt ons and they are set neck.

I'm not sold at all. Theres a point where the 2 pieces are already so tightly put together they are vibrationally acting as 1 piece. Enlarging the contact area wont necessarily increase the amount of vibration transferred.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

Actually he said they're Warmoth bolt-on LPs, so they're not really LPs at all :lol:

But yeah, you gotta have identical guitars with loose sides before you can say tight sides are proof enough. All you've got proof of is tight neck pocket sides, nothing more.

 

[orpheo]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

@drnewcenstein in my opinion, every les Paul after 1961 is a replica,clone,reissue or something like that. There are several reasons I won't mention here why I think my warmoths are more a les Paul than many gibsons you buy nowadays.

@edgecrusher you're missing my point. I tried to convey that a tight joint is nothing more but a great acomplishment of a luthier, and more so a mental barrier. The great tone my warmoths have, can easily be attributed to other things, not just the joint. I have a strat with a sloppy joint, and another flattop lp, which also hasn't the best joint in the world. But the sound great. Perhaps its a combination of being constructed with great hardware, care, attention and love for the instrument? I don't know. But i am sorry that you didn't get that from my post before.

 

[orpheo]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

How is that proof? For it to be proof you would need to establish that a loose pocket at the same time loses tone. A tight neck pocket does NOT mean that the pocket is dead level it means that the sides are tight. Its feasible to have a neck very tightly in the guitar and only have the sides touching.

If you have to pieces that are tightly bolted together adding more surface area isnt going to transmit more vibration. Look how many guitars have shimmed necks even fenders own neck tilt device.

So your saying all your les pauls are well made? ok but that doesnt answer the question of the neck pocket. Funny to compare them to a gibson les paul since we are talking bolt ons and they are set neck.

I'm not sold at all. Theres a point where the 2 pieces are already so tightly put together they are vibrationally acting as 1 piece. Enlarging the contact area wont necessarily increase the amount of vibration transferred.

About the bold part. That's my point. I make the assumption that tight sides means (or equals) a tight bottom.

Let's think of an extreme example. Suppose that there's only wood near the screws, and in between, its hollowed out. So neck rests at 4 'legs' in the pocket. I can imagine that guitar, or neck, having a worse tone than a neck with a flat heel.

Does my explanation make more sense now?

About warmoth lp vs Gibson lp. You don't wanna go there, seriously. We will both 'lose', since I loath Gibson and everything it stands for and represents to me.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

Ah ok that i can agree with yeah a tight neck joint usually is a good sign that someone skilled and with care put the instrument together which has a better chance of having great tone. Yeah that im down with.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

About warmoth lp vs Gibson lp. You don't wanna go there, seriously. We will both 'lose', since I loath Gibson and everything it stands for and represents to me.

LOL i wasnt saying anything negative about Warmoth LP unless that wasnt directed at me but Doc. As far as Im concerned if they can call the slab double cut LP Jr's Les Pauls then a bolt on Warmoth is just as worthy of the title.

 

[orpheo]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

LOL i wasnt saying anything negative about Warmoth LP unless that wasnt directed at me but Doc. As far as Im concerned if they can call the slab double cut LP Jr's Les Pauls then a bolt on Warmoth is just as worthy of the title.

Haha I see I must admit, I'm not shy of a verbal dogfight, but I've seen the results of the 'warmoth/prs vs Gibson 'discussion' end up in major conflicts, so that was the basis of my warning.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

Explain how it has a better chance of giving great tone? As long as the neck is bolted solid why would the neck pocket being tight make any difference at all?

Vibration does not only occur along the bottom side of the neck. Vibration occurs all over the neck man; therefore, the better connection to all sides of the neck pocket allow more resonance.

Try it yourself with this experiment. Tap a metal bar against a solid object, holding it with only your fingertips, you will feel the vibration in your hand; but if hold it in the palm of your hand and tap it, you will feel the vibration transfer from the metal rod through your arm. That happens because you have a better connection to the material in your entire palm than just your fingertips.

This cannot be denied and therefore holds true for the connection between guitar neck and body. The tighter the fit = the better connection to the body wood = better resonance. Reverberation occurs because both the neck and body are effectively conductors carrying vibrational frequencies from the strings. Correct me if I'm rusty on my physics, but I'm pretty sure I remember correctly.

If you still can't accept that then you're just denying the physics of materials. A tighter neck fit is better than a loose one. End of story.

 

[uOpt]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

The key is really in the signaling.

In most cases a bad neck pocket indicates a generally low quality guitar, and that is why you can get the impression that they are bad.

However, I picked up many guitars that were great and had sloppy neck pockets (often from necks too narrow, not the pocket too wide). Ibanez Blazers and some Roadstars from 1981-1984 come to mind.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: How critical is a tight fit at the neck pocket for bolt ons??

Vibration does not only occur along the bottom side of the neck. Vibration occurs all over the neck man; therefore, the better connection to all sides of the neck pocket allow more resonance.

Try it yourself with this experiment. Tap a metal bar against a solid object, holding it with only your fingertips, you will feel the vibration in your hand; but if hold it in the palm of your hand and tap it, you will feel the vibration transfer from the metal rod through your arm. That happens because you have a better connection to the material in your entire palm than just your fingertips.

This cannot be denied and therefore holds true for the connection between guitar neck and body. The tighter the fit = the better connection to the body wood = better resonance. Reverberation occurs because both the neck and body are effectively conductors carrying vibrational frequencies from the strings. Correct me if I'm rusty on my physics, but I'm pretty sure I remember correctly.

If you still can't accept that then you're just denying the physics of materials. A tighter neck fit is better than a loose one. End of story.

You need to note that i said BOLTED SOLID. Not grabbing something lightly with your fingers then holding it in your whole hand. Why dont you do this since you like your metal rod. Take a 2nd rod just like and lay it parallel to the other one so that 3 inches are overlapping drill a couple holes through both of them then bolt them together tightly. Now do your ring test. When your done with that take and move the over lap so its now 5 inches long and re-bolt them together and do your ring test. Then tell me how much more the added contact area adds to the vibration transmission between the 2 parts. Not again I said bolted solid not limp wristed pansy twinkle toes it together.