Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

Yeah...they do.

As do a few others..like this.

Oh ..& do feel free to post a couple of your own and show me how it's done..

 

[Nagisa]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

:soapbox:

 

[devastone]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

Good clean technique, bending, vibrato, theory, groove/rhythm, it all works together, and it takes work to be able to play.

After watching those videos I'm going to backtrack and say yes, some rudimentary understanding of music is necessary for playing any kind of music.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

Backtrack all you like ..as Obsessive Compulsive likes to say.. "it's your perogative" :bigthumb:


Feel free to analyse as many as you like..here's a couple more to pass your time with :lmao:

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

Knock yourself out...there's an orgy's worth of analysis to be done right there ^^ :bigthumb:

You can:

a)Point out all the 'mistakes'
b)be 'confused' at what's going on..
c)crib about tone
d)crib about anything else that catches your fancy
e) and last but far from least tell me how much I need advanced theory.. ( 'cuz we all love beating dead horses don't we?)

In other words lots of fun to be had... :lmao:

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

^What's the confusion? It's just typical early 80s rock in minor keys and notes, with occasional passing tones. Or something that I miss? It's 5 fn' minutes ffs.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

I think the above videos answer the question on whether or not theory is necessary.

Ummm....pretty sure neither of those were blues progressions.

If grasping the definition of a traditional American style of music that has been around for hundreds of years is too tough there’s no way we can expect any type of grasp of major scale harmony from the op.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

Knock yourself out...there's an orgy's worth of analysis to be done right there ^^ :bigthumb:

You can:

a)Point out all the 'mistakes'
b)be 'confused' at what's going on..
c)crib about tone
d)crib about anything else that catches your fancy
e) and last but far from least tell me how much I need advanced theory.. ( 'cuz we all love beating dead horses don't we?)

In other words lots of fun to be had... :lmao:

You’re presenting this like you were minding your own business, someone walked up to you and yelled, “You need to learn theory!”

No one is forcing you to learn any theory, and anyone who is suggesting it’s not a bad idea ONLY did so because you asked. I bet if your next thread is “Does anyone care if I don’t want to learn theory?”, no one will say yes.

As far as the clip, I’m moving this weekend. Once I get settled, I’ll record a clip of whatever you like.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

Ummm....pretty sure neither of those were blues progressions.

If grasping the definition of a traditional American style of music that has been around for hundreds of years is too tough there’s no way we can expect any type of grasp of major scale harmony from the op.

Don't expect it then..who gives a hoot :lmao:

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

You’re presenting this like you were minding your own business, someone walked up to you and yelled, “You need to learn theory!”

No one is forcing you to learn any theory, and anyone who is suggesting it’s not a bad idea ONLY did so because you asked. I bet if your next thread is “Does anyone care if I don’t want to learn theory?”, no one will say yes.

As far as the clip, I’m moving this weekend. Once I get settled, I’ll record a clip of whatever you like.

I kinda was minding my own business actually :lmao: All I said in the other thread in reply to the post above me was that I use my ears when I play...not theory 'cuz I find that to be a better, more effective & fun approach to the sort of stuff I do. That's what set this off in the other "theory' thread..

This thread that I started was again about how I was able to re-affirm my position based on the various blogs/websites I checked out 'cuz I had'nt read anything anywhere that 'caused me to change my views. I then said anyone was free to add their two bits if they felt differently. I did'nt ask anyone anything about theory at all 'cause I've got bugger-all interest in it ...as I've repeatedly said before

..& I'll be waiting with baited breath :laugh2:

 

[Hank-]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

So, to be clear, question is about "theory" as in understanding the concept behind a musical piece or the ability to read/write a musical piece on paper? Is it both? Thread was TL;DR, i cant do the latter but would like to learn sometime, the former I have some grasp of & would also like to increase my knowledge of it. I find it interesting, not everyone has too. Certainly no need to force it down on anyone.

What I like about knowing theory is where to use it to alter something to make it different than what it originally was. Some ideas i cant hear in my head, i can get ideas from analysing a part, might even be for 3secs in the entire song but enough to sometimes open a new approach to it & make the piece bigger or interesting. It's fun if I'm drained out of ideas or find things to be repititive, it helps me.

Its a free world, learning anything of value is nice. Wanting to learn music theory is a desire for some, its alright if some dont wish to do the same. I would like to own an altosax one day & sound like Dave Koz, well I hope so...

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

I have a theory about music.

It goes like this: if you’re playing music even remotely close to what is generally accepted as sounding “good,“ you’re using music theory… Whether you realize it or not.

…But it’s just a theory.

[emoji12]


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[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

well, I agree with you and that's basically what I've been saying all along myself. I don't have to get it from a book...that's the difference. If you're (ie..anyone's) out their poring over theory books, attending theory classes etc & I'm out there playing what your learning that way already by using my ears ..well that's just fine by me then (way I look at it)

I personally don't have any interest in how things work in music as long as my ears tell me they work. You (ie...anyone) are most welcome to do whatever the **** you please though...that's your thing...leave me at mine :bigthumb:

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

I hear ya, but consider this:

I absolutely agree with you about the whole “to each his own“ thing, but the difference between someone who plays with no knowledge of theory whatsoever and someone who plays and has tons oh theory background isn’t quite as black and white as you make it seem. Just because someone knows theory, DOESN’T mean that they sat around doing nothing musically during the time of their study. I know LOTS of musicians (as do you I’m sure) and my experience has been that most of the guys who know theory well started out with just their ears. They didn’t need to “pass a course“ or anything like that in order to be able to play, but rather learned the theory because they were interested in it or had a desire for further knowledge.

But theory is absolutely NOT a requirement of good musicianship. I think it’s like any other subject. For instance, I work for a paint manufacturer and have been selling paint for about 30 years. About three years ago I started working at our factory/ distribution center as our buyer and at that time started rubbing elbows more with the guys who actually make the products. To be honest, I am a guy who knows the features and benefits, but to this day when they start talking about all the additives, binders, pigments, defoamers, resins, and other sciency stuff that goes into a gallon of paint my eyes still glaze over because I could give a rats ass about what’s in it. I know it’s important, but I simply don’t care enough about it to feel like learning it.… and I don’t NEED to learn it in order to be able to sell it. But at the same time I have nothing but respect for those who DO care about it... I need them as much as they need me, and every once in a while, no matter how hard we try NOT to, we learn something from one another that actually comes in handy.

Music theory is the same way… If you want to cruise by with just your ears then that’s absolutely what you should do, but don’t pretend that the guys who do enjoy learning theory have nothing to offer musically. Learning theory, despite some of the talk out there, does NOT squash creativity one iota.


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[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

I kinda was minding my own business actually :lmao: All I said in the other thread in reply to the post above me was that I use my ears when I play...not theory 'cuz I find that to be a better, more effective & fun approach to the sort of stuff I do. That's what set this off in the other "theory' thread..

This thread that I started was again about how I was able to re-affirm my position based on the various blogs/websites I checked out 'cuz I had'nt read anything anywhere that 'caused me to change my views. I then said anyone was free to add their two bits if they felt differently. I did'nt ask anyone anything about theory at all 'cause I've got bugger-all interest in it ...as I've repeatedly said before

..& I'll be waiting with baited breath :laugh2:

Don’t remember the other thread, so this one appeared to be you baiting people into a fight. Apologies if I misunderstood the intent.

I may not be able to shred the blues as you do, but I can downpick “Master of Puppets” at 220bpm. I’ll record some stuff in the near future.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

I hear ya, but consider this:

I absolutely agree with you about the whole “to each his own“ thing, but the difference between someone who plays with no knowledge of theory whatsoever and someone who plays and has tons oh theory background isn’t quite as black and white as you make it seem. Just because someone knows theory, DOESN’T mean that they sat around doing nothing musically during the time of their study. I know LOTS of musicians (as do you I’m sure) and my experience has been that most of the guys who know theory well started out with just their ears. They didn’t need to “pass a course“ or anything like that in order to be able to play, but rather learned the theory because they were interested in it or had a desire for further knowledge.

But theory is absolutely NOT a requirement of good musicianship. I think it’s like any other subject. For instance, I work for a paint manufacturer and have been selling paint for about 30 years. About three years ago I started working at our factory/ distribution center as our buyer and at that time started rubbing elbows more with the guys who actually make the products. To be honest, I am a guy who knows the features and benefits, but to this day when they start talking about all the additives, binders, pigments, defoamers, resins, and other sciency stuff that goes into a gallon of paint my eyes still glaze over because I could give a rats ass about what’s in it. I know it’s important, but I simply don’t care enough about it to feel like learning it.… and I don’t NEED to learn it in order to be able to sell it. But at the same time I have nothing but respect for those who DO care about it... I need them as much as they need me, and every once in a while, no matter how hard we try NOT to, we learn something from one another that actually comes in handy.

Music theory is the same way… If you want to cruise by with just your ears then that’s absolutely what you should do, but don’t pretend that the guys who do enjoy learning theory have nothing to offer musically. Learning theory, despite some of the talk out there, does NOT squash creativity one iota.


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Agreed. Never said all guys who know next to everything about theory play like **** or I would'nt be buying, Yngwie, Vai & Dream Theater albums for the last 30+ years ...and I have plenty of each. I said I'm not bowled over by everyone who announces to me that they're theory genius's...or starts spouting streams of music theory jargon 'cause I've heard a lot of those guys playing atrociously afterword. Tin-eared/tone deaf & lacking any kind of chops/bends/vibrato/musicality. Sorry if I come across as unkind..but I'm just stating facts. I assume it's because they're unable to process all that information in their heads down to their fingers. Maybe it's lack of practice, ear-training or whatever...I don't know or really care. Just saying they're out there.. and plenty of them. Just as their are plenty of great players both with & without theoryl know-how.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

Don’t remember the other thread, so this one appeared to be you baiting people into a fight. Apologies if I misunderstood the intent.

I may not be able to shred the blues as you do, but I can downpick “Master of Puppets” at 220bpm. I’ll record some stuff in the near future.

It's all good. I do my stuff, you do your's.. (the way we want to do it) ...we both enjoy ourselves in the bargain & don't bad mouth each other's ****.

...& there's no problem as far as I'm concerned :bigthumb:

 

[Francois]

Re: Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

What you read on those blogs were lame excuses not to learn something usefull.

Any knowledge can be lead to new musical ideas. Do not write them off.

I don't particularly admire cold music school-like shredding and prefer music played from the soul, but :

Lately i met a guitarist tuned in drop A but he called it "Drop B" and he also complained that he did not liked playing in A.
After enquiry I found out that for him playing in A meant "Standard E tuning"
How disgracing not even knowing the name of the strings.

Some people think they loose time learning basics. I also into exotic languages and I remember some people who thought they might learn faster asiatic languages by non learning the script... But in reality they are just missing important concepts that woud have help them to really learn the language.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Is advanced music theory really required at all for rock/metal guitar?

Don’t remember the other thread, so this one appeared to be you baiting people into a fight. Apologies if I misunderstood the intent.

I may not be able to shred the blues as you do, but I can downpick “Master of Puppets” at 220bpm. I’ll record some stuff in the near future.

That’s hardly shredding. Quickly moving your fingers haphazardly through a scale does not a shredder make