JCM 800 Clean?

[Gunny47]

As you might know, I am considering a JCM 800 2203 Reissue with the Marshall TSLC212 speaker cab. I was wondering how do the JCM 800s compare to a Plexi or a Bassman in clean tones? Plexi cleans are not that bad, theyre actually pretty good - a little like a Bassman (well, thats what Marshalls were copied from). Are the JCM 800's cleans any good? Are they useable? Maybe some audio clips could help if you dont mind. Thanks.

EDIT: Well, if they are not real clean at low volumes, how do they sound at low volume. Im gonna try one out on low volumes in the store on saturday when I pickup my epiphone, but i was just wondering in advanced.

 

[BluesGuyJ]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

Def not the best cleans around. When you pick up the Epiphone, play the JCM set to a clean tone loud. She'll breakup easily.

 

[DesertRose]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

I think you gotta try it out. Best it to bring your guitar there, that is what i did before buying a JCM800, but mine is a lead series 50 watter Combo.

Don't expect much from the clean, otherwise a fender amp =)

 

[ErikH]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

No really good cleans out of the 2203/2204 Master Volume amps but they're not too bad out of the 2205/2210 Channel Switchers.

 

[ksmith63]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

Didnt the Smashing Pumpkins use these for clean and big muff pedal for distortion? (probably modified in the studio but ) they did seem to get some pretty good cleans

 

[Reckless Abandon]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

How clean do you want. Rolling the volume on mine worked well. Not too clean and break up when you hit it hard. I really like the sound. But like ERIK said the channel switchers have better cleans

 

[Gunny47]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

I am just talking about low levels on the amp (not guitar) at maybe 2 or 3. I am going to get a THD Hot Plate with the amp, which I am a big fan of, anyway, so I was wondering if I can get a decent non-clipped sound that can be good for pedals. Or I can use the attenuator with the pedals. I mean, is the clean sound too trebly? Is it just like a very dry sound? I dont think it should be that bad. I can always get an EQ pedal if it is too trebly - and I got a dark guitar (a 57 RI Goldtop and an Epiphone with Pearly Gates in neck and SH-11 Custom Custom in bridge). So Ill probably be fine with it. Im really looking for a great chunky crunchy overdrive sounds thats very simple that will accept pedals. If I wanted clean sounds, Id get the Fender Vibro King or a Tweed Twin amp. Thanks again for the replies. I was just wondering if it sounded HORRIBLE with the volume low, like very crackly or boomy or whatever. Ill try it out...

 

[wixedmords]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

Not that anyone is trying to deflate your ballon Gunny, but most Marshall's aren't known for their cleans. May I add that I love the Marshall sound.

There are some Marshall's that have better cleans than others, but they almost always have some type of compression to them.

If one went away from EL34's to, say 6L6's you may be able to better the cleans.

I have been toying with the thought of 6L6's in one of my Artist's, in an attermpt to bring in more of a chime to the sound.

EDIT: If I could also add this, that I try to approach most Marshall 2 channel amps as 2 distortion channels. I just find this approach to work better for me, and I find myself spinning my wheels less in the approach. I know this doesn't answer or immediately help with your question. Just trying to give you food for thought.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

There's a diff between "clean enough for rock" and "genuinely clean tone" like you'd want for jazz or country or maybe surf.

The JCM 800's I've owned (two 50 watters and one 100 watter) had a clean tone that was plenty good enough for most rock and rock-blues.

They did not get as clean and transparent a tone as a Fender Twin Reverb or Super Reverb...but they were clean enough and sounded great!

If you play with an overdriven rock or blues tone most of the time, you'll be able to get clean tones that are clean enough.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

The 2203/4's have two inputs. Nobody ever uses the low sensitivity input, because it doesn't provide lower volume overdrive. That input by-passes the first gain stage. If your using a pedal or outboard preamp for OD's and distortion, then using the low sens input can be used for better cleans. Likewise, the cleans from the 800 2203/4's were better on the 6550 loaded amps. You could also experiment with using a 12AT7 in the PI. The bright caps on these amps can be easily modded for brighter or less bright tone. Another easy mod that effects the brightness and headroom of these amps is the negative feedback line.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

The 2203/4's have two inputs. Nobody ever uses the low sensitivity input, because it doesn't provide lower volume overdrive. That input by-passes the first gain stage. If your using a pedal or outboard preamp for OD's and distortion, then using the low sens input can be used for better cleans. Likewise, the cleans from the 800 2203/4's were better on the 6550 loaded amps. You could also experiment with using a 12AT7 in the PI. The bright caps on these amps can be easily modded for brighter or less bright tone. Another easy mod that effects the brightness and headroom of these amps is the negative feedback line.

I never liked that lo input's tone...seemed flat. Lew

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

My impressions too. However, it might work with pedals.

 

[wixedmords]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

There's a diff between "clean enough for rock" and "genuinely clean tone" like you'd want for jazz or country or maybe surf.

The JCM 800's I've owned (two 50 watters and one 100 watter) had a clean tone that was plenty good enough for most rock and rock-blues.

They did not get as clean and tranparent a tone as a Twin Fender Reverb or blackface Fender though.

If you play with an overdriven rock or blues tone most of the time, you'll be able to get clean tones that are clean enough.

Point taken Lew-man. The 800's clean is good enough for Rock. Agreed.

 

[Gunny47]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

Thanks a lot everyone! Ill take ure suggestions into consideration. Im not really looking for more headroom, im really looking for less because Im playing smaller areas (thats why Im getting a 2 x 12 cab to go with it and thats why im gettin a hot plate with it). I can always use the low input for my pedals/clean (if I want clean, I can use a pre-amp pedal or EQ pedal in or not in the effects loop, ill do some experimenting when I get the amp). Like I said before, im not interested in ultra shimmering cleans, just like a rock clean like someone mentioned. Maybe with a little phaser or chorus. I mean, Im really into good clean sounds, but I use distortion a lot more, and thats why im investing in a good distortion amp. I mean, I got my Gibson GA5 amp which has decent cleans, like a tweed amp type clean which satisfies me fine. It discouranges you when people say in reviews, "The JCM 800s sound horrible at low volumes," when they really mean, "The JCM 800 provides amazing godly cranked tone and only okay clean sounds." So I cant wait to try it out! Thanks again.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

I think you're looking at the wrong amp for your situation. KISS and Judas Priest need 2203's, because they're standing on stages at arenas. If you're not looking for volume and headroom, and already considering an attenuator, the 2203 is way overkill. To get the distortion sounding good out of one, it'll be about twice as loud as you ever anticipated! Also, it'll pop the speakers right out of that cheap TSL cab, and just about any other 2-12 cab.

I think you'd be much better off getting a 50W head like a DSL 50, JCM 800 2205, JCM 900 SLX, 5150, Single Rec, Carvin Legacy, Jubilee 2550/2553, Soldano Hotrod 50+, Bogner Shiva, or even a modeler like a Valvetronix, Flextone, or Vetta. Trust me on this one. What you want is an amp that can get a great gain tone at reasonable volumes, and also a nice clean channel. 50 watters and 100W amps with useable master volumes are the right amp to use in a club with a 2-12 cab.
The 2203 has a master volume, but it's like putting a leash on a rhino.

If you go ahead with the 2203, you'll be right back here in a month asking how to tame it's unholy volume, how to get a good clean tone out of something with an attenuator on it, why the cops keep showing up, and why your speakers went 'poof.' LOL

 

[Gunny47]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

Im not sure, I was really looking foward to that tone. Listened to sound clips. I mean, I have the Vox Valvetronix AD15 model for practicing and stuff and i use the JCM 800 all the time. So i kinda wanted the real thing. Played other Marshalls - not too crazy about them like the DSL and the TSLs, the DSLs are pretty good, but its not what im looking for. Im looking for a Marshall crunch type sound, but not really the plexi sound, more like the 800 sound, a little heavier sounding but still retaining famous marshallness. I dont want to get an amp with a lot of pre-amp channels and buttons. Still want a Marshall amp, thats really what I was looking for for years and just never got one. Any suggestions for a good cab? I can change the cab, im a little iffy about changing the amp, i will see when i play it in the store on saturday.

If i like it a bit then, I can always buy it and then return it if I cant find the sound. That always happens with me. I play something in the store, like it a bit but it is usually not what I am looking for and then I buy it and fall in love. I was never going to get a Gibson GA5, I was originally going to buy a Deluxe Verb and then I played the GA5 and baught it and now I love it. Sadly, Im kinda broke because I just ordered a Fulltone OCD and a Tweak Fuzz so Im back to square 1 with money. Ill probably get it by the end of the year. So I still got some time to decide and experiment. Would you suggest a 1987X for what I am looking for. Im not too keen on buying used/ebay stuff too. I like stuff new and thats why I play a reissue stuff. Just my personal opinion of course, kinda sounds stupid but thats the way I am. I can probably put a pedal in front of a 1987X and get a slightly heavier Marshall tone that I am looking for. Any other suggestions/comments? Thanks.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

If you get the 2203 Reissue, and use the OCD, you should make sure your cab has Celestion Vintage 30's and is made out of 100% birch ply. Some of the newer Marshall 2-12's have particle board and lousy sounding wood. The 1960AV 4-12 (Vin 30 loaded) will sound the best with that amp. Those two go hand in hand for the exact tone you're looking for.

 

[Gunny47]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

Well, great, now you really did it. I took your advice on looking for a smaller amp so I went to the Marshall site and looked at the handwired amps. Now I got MAJOR GAS for the 1974X. This is no coincidince (or however you spell it) because I always loved that amp because, huh huh, I played it! I totally forgot about that amp! That amp has a really sick tremolo and a good clean too when taken down low. I played it at slightly higher volumes, enough to get a small compression and crunch and that sounded good too. Its kind of perfect for me, even though I wanted a JCM 800 type overdrive, I realize that it is too big, too much headroom and I have to invest a lot of money on a good cab if I want it to sound good. I guess Im better off with the small combos that are still loud.

My original choice for a new amp was the Fender '57 Tweed Twin RI and I kinda stuck with until recently where I got GAS for a Marshall like a DSL or a JCM 800. So now I finally realize that I truely want a pretty dry clean amp with a very natural vintage feel that I can crank for some blistering overdrive and heavy crunch that will accept pedals really well. This way, I can get another pedal like my OCD or my Tweak Fuzz and put it infront of the already sick clipping amp and get a killer lead tone. Sorry to fool you guys. Im sure this type of spontaneous mind-changing happens a lot in the gear world. Im deciding between the Marshall 1974X and the Fender '57 Twin-Amp, but Im leaning towards the Twin - better cleans, tighter distortion, already has the 2 speakers so I wont need an extension cab like I would with the 1974X, it is a bit cheaper and looks cooler. I was going to buy a tremolo pedal anyway if I got a new amp so I am not missing out on anything. Thanks for the feedback from everyone.

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

This way, I can get another pedal like my OCD or my Tweak Fuzz and put it infront of the already sick clipping amp and get a killer lead tone.

Actually you don't really pu a fuzz infront of a too much distorting amp... it'll sound better on a rather clean amp.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: JCM 800 Clean?

Spend a weekend trying as many Marshalls as you can. Advise on the net will only get you so far, but when you actually plug in, you'll know right away if it's for you or not. The DSL 50 is popular, so it takes a lot of criticism, but it's really one of the most versatile amps they make, so it's best to try it out for an hour and go through all it's tones. If you have the OCD, take it to the store with you, so you can see how it fares on the single channel Marshalls you're looking at.