Mexican made Fender

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Re: Mexican made Fender

I own one a mini Martin with a neck like that. I agree that it feels more solid / rigid, and maybe a little heaver. I'd guess that it makes for a brighter tone and a longer sustain than a typical two piece neck. It would look better if it weren't for the black lines between the wood slices, I'm not sure if that's a binding agent or what.
 
Re: Mexican made Fender

I really don't think it matters if a body, neck or guitar is made up of 6 pieces, 2 pieces, 3 pieces or one piece. All that matters is the quality of the wood within that piece or pieces. I own a flawless, great sounding one piece swamp ash strat and I love it, I own a killer one piece swamp ash Jazz bass body... but it has a quilted maple top that is bookmatched so it's more like a 3 piece... still great. I also have a few 3-4 piece les pauls (if you count the black korina and maple caps) and they are great. I have played great 3 piece guitars and I have played crappy 3 piece guitars. To my knowledge, I have never played a 6 piece guitar but again, it would not matter as long as the wood is at least decent instrument grade wood.
 
Re: Mexican made Fender

The trem blocks on MIMs tend to be pot metal in my experience. But to upgrade them is very inexpensive.

I've noticed that the frets ends also tend to protrude more and need to be filed down.

I've had two and both were good players with a little TLC. They both benefited from pickup upgrades.
 
Re: Mexican made Fender

IMO the size of the trem block is 99% of the difference, material type is maybe 1%, and then this is only if the bridge is floating. Deck it, and then block size/material goes down to 0.1% contributing significance in my estimation. Block swapping was probably the biggest PITA mods I've done that made no appreciable difference all said and done. First you have to get the right sized block with the right screw spacing and cavity depth, and then you have remove the string entirely from the guitar and take that whole thing apart, it's not easy like a pickup swap, or even neck heal truss adjustment. At $80, the Callaham blocks aren't cheap, either. They would make a decent melee weapon, though. I wouldn't mind having a set of Callaham knuckles.
 
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Re: Mexican made Fender

Small trem block, big trem block? Hardtail FTW! Haha


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Re: Mexican made Fender

Yeah, head-stock vibrato action is where it's at! Juuust kidding, it really sucks.
 
Re: Mexican made Fender

"Tone" be damned. Good luck proving anything about how hardware affects tone. That has nothing to do with why I dump MIM hardware as a matter of course. The thing I don't like about MIM bridges is their overall "cheapness." The metal isn't smooth or refined. The plating is thin and delicate. They are susceptible to rust, and I'm not even one of those guys with acid sweat that tears through the hardware and finish – quite the opposite, in fact. My sweat has never made anything rust, except for MIM bridges. The saddles are even cheaper than the original Fender vintage saddles, which is quite a feat, as those originals were pretty lame compared to what we have today. The MIM saddles move all over the place and the screws don't fit the threads well. They are rough and unrefined. The bevel on the underside of Strat bridges is poorly engineered (pivot point in a weird spot that ****s with tuning stability) and poorly executed (rough). Everything about the MIM hardware just seems to be sub-standard in terms of quality. Everything is delicate, ill-fitting, and unrefined. The tuners are pretty bad too, though at least they can function okay if everything else is in order.
 
Re: Mexican made Fender

"Tone" be damned. Good luck proving anything about how hardware affects tone. That has nothing to do with why I dump MIM hardware as a matter of course. The thing I don't like about MIM bridges is their overall "cheapness." The metal isn't smooth or refined. The plating is thin and delicate. They are susceptible to rust, and I'm not even one of those guys with acid sweat that tears through the hardware and finish – quite the opposite, in fact. My sweat has never made anything rust, except for MIM bridges. The saddles are even cheaper than the original Fender vintage saddles, which is quite a feat, as those originals were pretty lame compared to what we have today. The MIM saddles move all over the place and the screws don't fit the threads well. They are rough and unrefined. The bevel on the underside is poorly engineered and poorly executed (rough). Everything about the MIM hardware just seems to be sub-standard in terms of quality. Everything is delicate, ill-fitting, and unrefined.

My MIA's are my oldest guitars, because I bought them at a time when I drank the Koolaid about MIA being the best, I didn't really know any better. They are/were plenty rusted. The screws were all black as night before I replaced them, I replaced the saddles and cleared up the rest with dremel polishing heads. In addition to not having evidence that the MIA's are any more resistant to rust, the fact that an MIA will too rust, is all the more reason not to spend the extra money for one.

I would buy MIA Fender again, if there was a nice enough MIA that wasn't also $2000 just for having that extra little piece of trim, but generally speaking, I don't want to pay a Made in America tax without some especially good cause.

The tuners are pretty bad too, though at least they can function okay if everything else is in order.

For centuries stringed instruments, and many orchestral instrument still use simple pegs for tuners. Most tuning problems can be traced to the nut or saddle where the string will catch and hang up. This is why roller nuts and bridges, or trem units that allow the saddle to travel, rather than have the string slide over the top of them, are a thing. I'd say the chief benefit of the nicer tuners is that they feel nice when you turn them, and they look better. Classic Les Pauls and Fenders Kluson tuners are still sold on new premium grade guitars to this day, and have not gone the way of Bakelite or heal adjustment truss rods.
 
Re: Mexican made Fender

"Tone" be damned. Good luck proving anything about how hardware affects tone. That has nothing to do with why I dump MIM hardware as a matter of course. The thing I don't like about MIM bridges is their overall "cheapness." The metal isn't smooth or refined. The plating is thin and delicate. They are susceptible to rust, and I'm not even one of those guys with acid sweat that tears through the hardware and finish – quite the opposite, in fact. My sweat has never made anything rust, except for MIM bridges. The saddles are even cheaper than the original Fender vintage saddles, which is quite a feat, as those originals were pretty lame compared to what we have today. The MIM saddles move all over the place and the screws don't fit the threads well. They are rough and unrefined. The bevel on the underside of Strat bridges is poorly engineered (pivot point in a weird spot that ****s with tuning stability) and poorly executed (rough). Everything about the MIM hardware just seems to be sub-standard in terms of quality. Everything is delicate, ill-fitting, and unrefined. The tuners are pretty bad too, though at least they can function okay if everything else is in order.

Damn man, I am one of those guys with acid sweat. I have to buy coated strings just to keep them from rusting out on me within 1 week! I am jealous of people who do not share this problem with me. My pickup screws, bridges, pickup poles, etc. all get rusty within a matter of a year or two depending on how much the guitar is played. My main guitar for the past 7 years looks like it has survived wars. A lot of my hardware is premium (Wilkinson Trem, Duncan pickups, Warmoth ordered mounting screws, Gotoh tuners) yet they still rust.

I can agree with the cheapness you speak of when it comes to MIM hardware. The last time I bought a MIM Strat was around 2004, maybe 2005. I got it for $350 IIRC. I sunk so much money into upgrading that guitar over the next few years. New bridges, new pickups, different pickguards, different tuners, saddles, new trem claw/springs and even a new neck. Wow, now that I think about it, it didn't make sense for me to spend that much money on upgrading it. Why didn't I just save my money to buy what I ended up with after the MIM from the beginning? I don't even own the MIM anymore! Oh well, lesson learned.
 
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Re: Mexican made Fender

I'll say this, if you really feel it necessary to upgrade the metal parts of a MIM Strat, then don't buy a MIM Strat. Not because it's more economical to spend $300 - $500 more for an MIA, but if you're the type of person who finds fault in pot metal trem blocks and expects steel everything, then there's no end to the voodoo that will keep you up at night until you've replaced the "cheap" MIM wood body with a fine partscaster body, and at last nothing remains of the MIM you had originally bought. You might as well buy a MIA so that you soul can rest easy knowing you have the same guitar the professional signed artists use, and not the cheap foreign made garbage that high school kids regularly disrespect with the crappy "music" they like to play.
 
Re: Mexican made Fender

I have to agree with DreX about the MIM bridges. I have a 2011/12 example of the Classic Player 50s Stratocaster. The bridge is a hybrid of the vintage stamped steel design and two height adjustable pivot posts à la Am Std. I set mine down against the body. The guitar plays and sustains nicely.

The only items that I felt necessary to change were the electronics. I mated a set of Fender Fat Fifties single coils to my usual seven sounds control harness.

The guitar doesn't see much use because the neck seems too thin to me. My AVRI '62 Stratocaster with the Twangbanger and Surfers leaves the MIM for dead.
 
Mexican made Fender

I have to agree with DreX about the MIM bridges. I have a 2011/12 example of the Classic Player 50s Stratocaster. The bridge is a hybrid of the vintage stamped steel design and two height adjustable pivot posts à la Am Std. I set mine down against the body. The guitar plays and sustains nicely.

The only items that I felt necessary to change were the electronics. I mated a set of Fender Fat Fifties single coils to my usual seven sounds control harness.

The guitar doesn't see much use because the neck seems too thin to me. My AVRI '62 Stratocaster with the Twangbanger and Surfers leaves the MIM for dead.

Your guitar model doesn't have the crappy hardware of which I speak. The Classic and Classic Player guitars are better quality guitars than the Standards of which I have been speaking...and the Classics are $200 to $300 more expensive because of it. I wouldn't change out Classic Series hardware either.

This isn't some need of mine to have a certain material (I never said anything about steel) for some supposed tonal reason, or some quest to avoid rust at all cost. I used the easiness with which the hardware rusts as just one indicator of its poor quality. If I'm trying to make a cheap guitar like a Mexican Standard be closer to the level of a nice mid-level U.S.A. guitar like an American Standard, then to me, the most important thing is to install well engineered and well built hardware, as the stock stuff is pretty lame. Good hardware (notice I'm not saying the greatest, most expensive hardware in the world) makes the whole guitar feel and look a whole lot nicer, not to mention that it is more durable and performs better. By good hardware, I simply mean something that was designed and built with at least some degree of care. For starters, something on which the action (movement of parts) is well engineered, the metal is smooth, the plating is durable, and the threads actually mesh tightly. None of these are features of MIM Standard hardware. It is not durable. It doesn't hold you adjustments tightly. It's movement is coarse and rough. You can see just by looking at it that the screws and springs are bargain barrel components, and the protective plating is cheap.

As for the tuner issue, I've said in this thread that they can perform fine if everything else is in order, and that they are the last priority in term of upgrades. But there's no denying that they are relatively cheaply made.

Anything on a MIM Standard will "work." I don't claim otherwise. They're fairly solid guitars for the money. I played a bone stock one for 7 or 8 years as one of my two main guitars before finally getting off my ass to give it the souping up it deserved. I have another that is two years old, and that still has all the stock hardware. This discussion isn't really about whether or not they will work as musical instruments, or what absolutely needs to be done to them so they will be playable. It's about whether it is worth it to rig one up so that it is approaching American Standard level. As I said in my initial post in the thread, I believe it's worth it if you get one on the used market, vs. a new American Standard...but probably not if you buy the MIM new. I also don't, and never, said that American Standards are high end guitars. But in this particular thread, they are what is setting the bar for a modded MIM to match.
 
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Re: Mexican made Fender

Im itching to buy a telecaster.. Besides hardware and electronics, whats the difference between the MIM and AM made?

basically all the stuff you have not listed like wood and all the little things that add up, like the bridge saddles and tuning heads etc.
The only way to really answer your question is suggest that you try a few unplugged and you will hear the differences. Then you can make an informed decision about which guitar is the right one for you.
 
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Re: Mexican made Fender

In fact, the route marks from the MIA and MIM are so similar that it wouldn't surprise me if the MIA bodies were actually routed in Mexico and sent to California for final assembly. I didn't expect to see that sort of corner cutting in a MIA.

Patently false information. How do I know? I went to Corona, CA and took the Fender factory tour. They showed us the piles of body and neck blanks. Then showed us the CNC machines routing them in front of our eyes. I even watched the ladies drilling the holes in American Standard bridge plates. MIA means MIA. About the only thing on the guitars they don't make in house are the tuning machines.

In fact, here is are some photos I took of the blanks and such:

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Re: Mexican made Fender

Can you tell me how six pieces of wood sounds different from one, two or three pieces?

Want to see something interesting? This is a Martin neck:

MTND1_heel.jpg

I have one of those. It's a composite wood design. Apparently 25% stronger than traditional hardwoods. All I can say is I've had mine over 5 years and I've never had to touch the truss rod even once.
 
Re: Mexican made Fender

Patently false information. How do I know? I went to Corona, CA and took the Fender factory tour. They showed us the piles of body and neck blanks. Then showed us the CNC machines routing them in front of our eyes.

Making some != making all. Depending on production needs, I could see the sharing resources with the Mexican plant. If the wood is sourced in the US, routed in Mexico, and sent back to the US, Fender could claim that it constitutes a small enoug portion of the final product to still declare it "Made in the USA". Supposedly MIM necks are or were made in the US and sent to California, so I don't see why it can't work both ways. All I'm saying is the maching marks on my MIA and MIM Fenders look substantially similar, and substantially different from my MIJ's, but that can also be due to shared manufacturing procedures, you be the judge.
 
Re: Mexican made Fender

I've got a classic player 60's strat... MIM... It was always a good guitar till the frets wore down... Then I got a new warmoth neck for it and wow... It feels like a custom built high end instrument now... Still under 1000 invested... If ibwere to do it again I'd probly buy a squire deluxe and put a warmoth neck on it.... The neck is the instrument... Imo
 
Re: Mexican made Fender

Making some != making all. Depending on production needs, I could see the sharing resources with the Mexican plant. If the wood is sourced in the US, routed in Mexico, and sent back to the US, Fender could claim that it constitutes a small enoug portion of the final product to still declare it "Made in the USA". Supposedly MIM necks are or were made in the US and sent to California, so I don't see why it can't work both ways. All I'm saying is the maching marks on my MIA and MIM Fenders look substantially similar, and substantially different from my MIJ's, but that can also be due to shared manufacturing procedures, you be the judge.

Sorry DreX, MIA is MIA. Your little conspiracy theory is wrong.
 
Re: Mexican made Fender

Sorry DreX, MIA is MIA. Your little conspiracy theory is wrong.

You don't know that, your guess is just as good as mine. Legally, Fender could do this if they wanted, and it's plausible that it would be economical to do so, since their sister plant produces a near identical product.
 
Re: Mexican made Fender

You don't know that, your guess is just as good as mine. Legally, Fender could do this if they wanted, and it's plausible that it would be economical to do so, since their sister plant produces a near identical product.

Except it's not a guess. So, no. Fender is not doing that. There is plenty of evidence and testimonials on this very subject to back Fender up.
 
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