Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

[Larioso]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

I would have to see the proof of that statement by Erlewine. I don't say he's lying; I just would like to see it for myself.

Have you, by the way, seen the first guitars Gibson did on a PLEK? It was hilarious. To get the fretwork actually level, the machine milled so much off it milled into the fretboard at some points. Hilarious to see. It's not a video, unfortunately, I saw it first-hand a few years ago. Oddly enough, one of the best LP's I have ever tried was a 2002 Gary Rossington LP Standard Tom Murphy relic. But was it worth 14995 dollars? Absolutely not.

I've seen some YT by Erlewine, and he is not my house god, at all. Just have these books, the one Guitar Player Repair guide as well.

I will will look for that PLEK if available, sounds like fun.

I made my way to PLEK folks in stockholm with my LP, but they did not show up on time, waited 2 hours, so I went again.
So 2 years ago I learned everything about doing it myself. Fun to be self sufficient.
Even refretted an vintage Ibby - so this is the way.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

I've seen some YT by Erlewine, and he is not my house god, at all. Just have these books, the one Guitar Player Repair guide as well.

I will will look for that PLEK if available, sounds like fun.

I made my way to PLEK folks in stockholm with my LP, but they did not show up on time, waited 2 hours, so I went again.
So 2 years ago I learned everything about doing it myself. Fun to be self sufficient.
Even refretted an vintage Ibby - so this is the way.

That's awesome! Doing it yourself is a sure-fire way to either learn it and do it well for the rest of your life or screw up a guitar completely haha!

I have one guitar I have set up like that Ibanez Erlewine mentions and yeah that plays well but the fretwork has to be perfect to a "T".

 

[bigcupholder]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

Dude, that's nonsense about Ibanez. Total hogwash. Try and look up the real specs. Here's an Ibanez spec sheet:

http://www.hoshinogakki.co.jp/pdf/ibanez/manual/en/eg/Ibanez_EG_05_Excl_Prestige.pdf

0.3-0.5mm neck relief (HOLY **** that's curved: I build and set up my necks to have a 0.1mm neck relief but OK) and a 1.5mm to 2mm action.

About Gibson: They PLEK their necks. They don't need to be leveled again. If you can't set up a 2019/2020 Gibson really low without buzzing, you're doing it wrong

Every time I've played an Ibanez in a shop it's had way lower action than any Fender or Gibson in the place, so I seriously doubt those numbers. Maybe they're maximums rather than guidelines? Or maybe the shops I've gone to set up the Ibanez themselves with lower action because their fret work can take it.

And Gibsons have been pleked for awhile. I've still played a ton of brand new ones that played like ****. Probably 25-33%. Doesn't mean they're not salvageable, but they consistently have horrible setups brand new.

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[nexion218]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

One is US made and the other is Asian. Of course the MM is going to be higher.

There is typically more workmanship put into the neck of a MM man (gunstock oil and wax)... and the hardware isn't skimped.

Well, ESP/E-II is Asian too... Those factories produce what they're paid for.

 

[Larioso]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

Asians are capable, even Korea Epiphone made this Elite series - not sure if still there.
But Gibson is not allowing them to make better than american, even though I heard somebody felt Elite series were as good.

Or was Elite Japan made, but think not.

I think I read the legendary Epiphone Casino was us made, I read the other day.

But having had a Epiphone Sheraton II and put Gibson 57' Classic in - really good guitar for the price.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

About Gibson: They PLEK their necks. They don't need to be leveled again.

This is a lie. I've had to level a number of newer Gibson's that had been pleked that were unplayable. Some I recommended returning to the factory for a complete refret - which they did (but they complained). Pleking is not perfect, and it's not a cure all.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

Asians are capable, even Korea Epiphone made this Elite series - not sure if still there.
But Gibson is not allowing them to make better than american, even though I heard somebody felt Elite series were as good.

Or was Elite Japan made, but think not.

I think I read the legendary Epiphone Casino was us made, I read the other day.

But having had a Epiphone Sheraton II and put Gibson 57' Classic in - really good guitar for the price.

Yep. Epiphone Elitists were Japanese. Made by Fujigen, no less. Made in the same factory that makes Ibanez Prestige.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

Compare that with Ibanez. They have virtually no USA production; asian labor is cheaper. Also, Ibanez guitars that are not Team J-Craft aren't nearly as neatly built as Musicman's. They're good guitars and will play fine, no problems there. But they're not as neatly built.

Ibanez has a factory in Pennsylvania.

The OEM pickups for both are made by DiMarzio.

Personally I think MusicMan guitars are kind of ugly (except for the St Vincent and Mariposa). I’d rather play an Ibanez.


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[Mincer]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

I have a relatively cheaper Music Man (a Silhouette Special), which isn't in the $3k range,,,more like $1.7 range, and less than $1k used (I bought mine used). The neck is why I bought it. I have small hands and the MM necks are perfect for me. It is also far more balanced than Ibanez (or most brands). I can put the guitar on my knee, let go and it will just sit there. The weight is just about 6lbs.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

I surely don't know enough about Luthery (sp?) to add anything of substantial value. But this was a good read. As far as Music Man, Yes, not sure how many JP models the world needs and many of their models are not to my taste. I have only tried a couple and they felt pretty well made, even the import ones. (name eludes me) . And I cant justify paying the $5-15 k prices that so many Gibson models go for. Even seems nuts to me to pay $2 thou plus for a strat or Ibanez. I guess its just a sad fact of the world right now. But Geeez Wheez.. A $10 thousand dollar guitar better make me not suck.. But, sadly, I still do. I still gravitate to high end older guits like USA Washburn MG series and Import (japanese) Charvel Pro mods. Aside from the fancy appointments, my pro mod plays and feels as good as my USA Charvel. Anyhow, Ill shut up now, as I dont have anything more constructive or insightful to add and dont want to get into a bash fest. Just that prices of guits these days blow my mind. I did play a lower line import Jackson a couple years ago and it seemed to be made well. it was pretty much unplayable at the time, but that was due to set up.

 

[Larioso]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

I have a relatively cheaper Music Man (a Silhouette Special), which isn't in the $3k range,,,more like $1.7 range, and less than $1k used (I bought mine used). The neck is why I bought it. I have small hands and the MM necks are perfect for me. It is also far more balanced than Ibanez (or most brands). I can put the guitar on my knee, let go and it will just sit there. The weight is just about 6lbs.

Seems really nice, it's just a HSS version as far as I can tell and usually with tremolo bar the ones available locally - it's about $2500 here or €2500.
Europe is around 19-25% VAT added to US prices, so we clash sometimes when we talk price.
The agent in sweden does not even import the HSH that I looked at, but germany and uk had both.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

Seems really nice, it's just a HSS version as far as I can tell and usually with tremolo bar the ones available locally - it's about $2500 here or €2500.
Europe is around 19-25% VAT added to US prices, so we clash sometimes when we talk price.
The agent in sweden does not even import the HSH that I looked at, but germany and uk had both.

I think I paid $600US for mine, about 15 years ago. I bought mine to mod, and I don't think I'd do what I did to a brand new, expensive guitar. I had the entire neck scalloped, and I converted the pickups to 2 humbuckers and a 5 way switch.

I'd recommend the Sterling line, though. They make great guitars.

 

[gh0styboi]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

Well, from a purely fabrication standpoint, Ibanez's popular Prestige models are far easier to machine and work by hand than MusicMan's are. Whether that's worth the extra dosh is up to you. I absolutely love Ibanez, but I can see the value in most of the EB guitars, and I can see why some of them are pricier than some Ibanez models are. Bear in mind that there are Ibanez Prestige models that go past two grand as well - even a couple past $3,000 US, like the AZ2204 Koa.

Personally, I won't go over 2k for a guitar. Any guitar. Past that, it's diminishing returns for me - or name value as opposed to functional value. But that's my opinion. If people have the money to spend and think it's worth it, why not?

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

Wow, I'm late to this thread. It seems that we've covered pretty well how high the value of an EBMM is for the money, but no one has mentioned that their cheap SUB line is INSANE. Their $300-$400 dollar range is just about as good as you can get in that level, better than an Epi, better than a Fender MIM, and even better than Yamaha. I picked up an AX3 Axis model (Wolfgang-esque design) for $235 and the only guitars outside of EBMM that play better will set you back at least $600

Ibanez on the other hand, is very hit or miss with their cheap options, even if you don't include the cheapo sub $300 range.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

It is not a scam. It's a free market. Nobody is forcing any musician to buy a Music Man. They won't fit the bill for everyone out there. If you can get the same quality for less, then just do it. If you can't afford one, then don't buy one. They aren't obligated to sell them for a price that you think is appropriate.

They are good, and they are expensive, and they always have been both. Like every company that manufactures non-essential products, they charge what the market will bear – no more, and no less. They've obviously done the math, and decided that their business works the way they want it to by making few compromises in quality, and selling fewer units, for a lot of money each. If it wasn't working for them, they'd change something, or die.

FWIW, I am not a Music Man fan boy. I have one, and it's a 1977. The new ones I'd consider are $2,000 to $2,500 basses, but I'm not rushing out to buy them.

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

A few years ago, when most EBMMs were ~$1,500, they seemed like a BARGAIN for the quality. Now that they've climbed to the low-mid $2k range (BFR and Vault editions notwithstanding), they seem appropriately priced.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

Several years ago Music Man had a genuine model, the SUB1, made in the USA with great hardware. They are exceptional guitars that retailed under $1k. I have one that I got in a trade, and it is really wonderful.

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

I never played the SUB guitar, but the bass was def nice. Especially once they added the preamp the second (or so) model year. The passive ones... don't really do what I want a Stingray to do, but they're still great instruments.

Several years ago Music Man had a genuine model, the SUB1, made in the USA with great hardware. They are exceptional guitars that retailed under $1k. I have one that I got in a trade, and it is really wonderful.

 

[Larioso]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

I'd recommend the Sterling line, though. They make great guitars.

I read good things about Sterling - and that EB are as concerned about quality of those so they are inspected in the US before shipped worldwide, as I read.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Musicman vs Ibanez pricetag - how much of a scam is that?

I had a Sterling AX40D for a while. Despite the wannabe Floyd Rose style bridge, it felt, played and sounded like a $2K Axis, which I've also owned. Excellent fretwork, same DiMarzio "Axis" pickups, very well balanced overall and incredibly toneful. If it wasn't just a tad small for my 6'4" frame and larger hands, it would've been a keeper and I would never have lusted again for the more expensive Axis. That said, I've seen some Sterlings that weren't nearly as nice as that one in terms of sound and playability, but all have been at least "good" or better.

I agree that MusicMan commands an unusual premium, despite really "meh" looking designs for the most part. But people are willing to pay for the name and the uniqueness. It's an elite "club" of sorts, similar to what PRS and maybe even Parker guitars were in the '90s. Plus, the quality certainly is excellent, easily comparable to anything from PRS.

Is a top-of-the-line Ibanez a better value than an EBMM? Depends.

I'm a long-time Ibanez fan, but their designs and finishes are not that spectacular or even original at this point. I would argue that there are plenty of guitars at $1200 or less that could compete with most of the boutique stuff in terms of fit, finish, and features, regardless if we're talking EBMM or Ibanez. It's only when you get into really specific, feature-laden models, like the John Petrucci stuff, that it's hard to duplicate elsewhere for less money.