NGD...I have a woody..

I often think I'd probably "get" Zappa more now than I did back then whn I first heard him as a teen. I had a concert on VHS that was pretty cool to watch and even then I could appreciate the musicianship, but the albums just went way over my head...way to weird and disjointed/dissonant. I mean I actually like dissonance but only when it's part of a bigger picture that includes melody, speed and other cool stuff....not when it itself is the whole/big picture.


Vai's solo stuff like 'Flexable' also went way over my head...it was to reminiscent of his stuff with Zappa. Not knocking Zappa..I just could'nt get into it myself.

I'll look up that interview with Vai..don't recall seeing it..
 
Phantasmagoria said:
No I can't...he 's not thinking "I think it's time for a diminished inverted E flat major arpeggiated thingumee next"

I don't expect you to get it though...
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:bsflag: :smash: :blindfold

That's because he knows the theory so well it becomes second nature to him, he doesn't need to consciously "think" about every note he plays. Because of that, it frees/allows him to focus on creativity and emotional expression.

If you don't think about what you're playing because you don't know what you're playing, then what you ARE playing comes out as garbage filled with lots of feeling.

I guess the thing that made Beethoven, Brahms, and the other great composers so good was that they didn't bother learning any theory and they just composed and played with feeling.

Time to take your blinders off and face the reality which just about every other person on the planet already understands.
 
Phantasmagoria said:
Sounds good, but honestly I could'nt listen to it more than halfway through. Personally I would just tap instead of stretching like that all the time (tendonitis waiting to happen) and also it got a bit repetitive a couple mins in.

i think one problem I have with jazz dudes is the rigidity (insistence on picking every note/never bending a note..I mean what's with that ****??) I feel like giving him my woody for a while and telling to knock himself out doing some divebombs/squealies/flutters or something.... But yeah, everyone has their own thing going...so be it as it may...


Simple little soft rock track w/my Ibby SA/Randall T2.. (middle/neck notch position)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wCqzNEsUIA
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You just don't get it!
Rather than address the issue that we're talking about (the need to understand theory in addition to playing with feeling) you attack the type of music (jazz) and its associated playing style. He has an incredible knowledge of music theory that he understands so perfectly that he doesn't need to think about it, he just plays what he wants without hitting a single "wrong" note. All of the many fast played notes he hits, and not one of them is out of place.

Your example(s) shows that you have no understanding of theory at all and you use your whammy and bends to go + or - 4 semitones hoping that the note you need to play is in there somewhere. For each "right" note that you play there are a dozen "wrong" ones.

Look, I'm not really trying to condemn your playing style or ability, just trying to point out that it could be soooooo much more if you actually knew which notes you wanted to play and why.

Nothing wrong with using bends or whammies (even big ones of 2 full tones or more), they just need to be deliberate, not fishing.

A good illustration is Elliot Easton playing the lead in "You're Just What I Needed" by the Cars. He bends just about every note he plays...some as much as 3 semitones, but every one is perfect in pitch and timing to get to the desired pitch. No fishing and flailing around hoping to find the right note.

Don't be so offended. Everyone can learn something new to him. I hope I can continue to learn new concepts. After over 60 years of playing guitar I can honestly say that I'm not even close to where I'd like to be. No shame in that. But to not be able to see or admit your faults, there's the real shame.
 
GuitarDoc said:
:bsflag: :smash: :blindfold

That's because he knows the theory so well it becomes second nature to him, he doesn't need to consciously "think" about every note he plays. Because of that, it frees/allows him to focus on creativity and emotional expression.

If you don't think about what you're playing because you don't know what you're playing, then what you ARE playing comes out as garbage filled with lots of feeling.

I guess the thing that made Beethoven, Brahms, and the other great composers so good was that they didn't bother learning any theory and they just composed and played with feeling.

Time to take your blinders off and face the reality which just about every other person on the planet already understands.
Click to expand...
zz0.443ort78ijtzz


Maybe...like I said everyone has their own way of going about stuff..if that's his then ..cool.

It's not mine and frankly,I get by just fine ..could'nt be happier w/ my playing in fact and in the end that's all that counts. :bigthumb:

I will say this though, some of the most tin eared tuneless, unimaginative, tone-deaf,un-dextrous, non-fluid players I've ever come across IRL are music theory afficionados who can spout senseless shit musical theory w/o a break for hours, boring everyone around them to tears only to bring on some welcome comic relief if/when they finally start to "play". :lmao:.

So for every Marty Friedman (who by saying don't play straight scales, have some individuality, embellish your playing w/ exotic bends & vibrato & play out of the box is basically saying "fuck sticking to theory") there are manyy many more abject failures & tone deaf, pathetic sounding, egg-heeded dorks w/o a shred of musicality or any real//practical talent for playing their instrument with any kind of actual profficiency :bigthumb:
 
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Self reflection?

That's a good thing. Those who are happy and contented with where they are never get to a better place, or get better.
 
GuitarDoc said:
Self reflection?

That's a good thing. Those who are happy and contented with where they are never get to a better place, or get better.
Click to expand...
​

So ideally I shoud be a dissatisfied miserable git which will take me to the lofty musical heights where all music theory eggheads and dorks dwell ?
 
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Phantasmagoria said:
I will say this though, some of the most tin eared tuneless, unimaginative, tone-deaf,un-dextrous, non-fluid players I've ever come across IRL are music theory afficionados who can spout senseless **** musical theory w/o a break for hours, boring everyone around them to tears only to bring on some welcome comic relief if/when they finally start to "play".
Click to expand...

How are you any different than what you described? Your music has no positive effect on the listener because all it is is random bs. The best you ever sound is when you actually get ahold of a scale. Like how you use the major scale in the ballad clips. Also the eastern sounding clip where you use a harmonic minor ish scale and pedal on the bass strings. Think if you actually learned more about music than just 1 scale. You might actually be able to play adequately.

So for every Marty Friedman (who by saying don't play straight scales, have some individuality, embellish your playing w/ exotic bends & vibrato & play out of the box is basically saying "**** sticking to theory") there are manyy many more abject failures & tone deaf, pathetic sounding, egg-heeded dorks w/o a shred of musicality or any real//practical talent for playing their instrument with any kind of actual profficiency.
Click to expand...

You mean like Yngwie? Lol. Yeah he must be a dork with no feeling because he uses theory. In order to play with feeling you have to understand the structure of music. Same way to write something with feeling you need to know the structure of language. You don't just blabber random syllables and have it be expressive like a 2 year old learning to talk but can't say anything meaningfull yet.

 
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Phantasmagoria said:
​

So ideally I shoud be a dissatisfied miserable git which will take me to the lofty musical heights where all music theory eggheads and dorks dwell ?
Click to expand...

My opinion isn't that you need to learn theory, but that you need to learn phrasing.

Fitting well worn musical ideas on top of what the band is playing. Maybe try playing only blues progressions for a full year, and using only pentatonic and blues scales. There won't be any possibility to play wrong notes, and if you learn alot of blues licks, you will absolutely learn to phrase as you fit them into your solos.

I'm not trying to be critical, only helpful. You can do everything I suggested without learning a bit of theory. You only need to memorize some licks and learn how to string them together into your songs. Then next year when you get tired of blues, you can try other progressions and you will find the phrasing is still there.

Or you could forget about "improvisation" and just learn note for note solos. That is kinda more gratifying anyway.
 
Or quit being a moron against knowledge and learn in every way including theory and actually become proficient or even good. Why do that tho, might cause him physical pain.
 
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And while my playing may be deeply flawed full of wrong notes and bad phrasing everyone (except Clint who is brighter than most) missed the point. I'm happy as can be with it just how it is and would'nt/won't be changing a thing about it. End of story

More importantly, This thread has no business even being about how I play. It's about the sweet woody that I have and since you seem to have missed the point, the clips that I posted were to demonstrate how it sounds both on it's own and in relation to other sweet axes I own...and to enjoy & indulge myself in the way that I often do in these threads of mine....ie.."have fun" actually playing my guitar..

LIke so.. :bigthumb:

 
And enough blues here for a full year..just condemsed into into one twenty minute jam....so I will just skip that suggestion of Top-L's (been there , done that)


Evan Skopp, who was a mod here at the time "liked" that one when I first posted it many moons ago ^^ .

He musta really appreciated all the bad phrasing & wrong notes :lmao:
 
But much as I love jamming tthe blues..I also love jamming ze Neoclassicalz (nippily) , bum notes bad phrasing and all :lmao:


For me guitar playing is all about enjoying myself :bigthumb:


and yup, if I can get 300-400 other's (who pay to come see us/me every time we've/I've played over the last 30 years) to enjoy what I do as well ...eh, why not???

 
Now any one of you maestros can post up clips / vids of their own gigs .showcasing their immaculate theoretically correct playing full of "right" notes straight out of the dweeby books of theory & their own unforgettable phrasing....

So I might watch and learn from the maestro's...thus improving myself theoretically and phrasingly :bigthumb:
 
How come ur using theory? I heard the main riff and soloing using box 1. Then the backup riff was in minor. That minor arpeggio with lower neighbor trills. Did the bassist write the song? :P
 
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