STRATDELUXER97
Stratoblaster Tone Meister
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
I think "properly" comes down to personal player preference?
I think "properly" comes down to personal player preference?
Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
- Thread starter STRATDELUXER97
- Start date
FretFire
SingedFingerologist
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
They're designed to float, so I consider that the "proper" way. YMMV. Tightening them down is just a way to simplify setups and string changes but breaks the intended functionality of the bridge.
Unless you have a Robert Cray strat
They're designed to float, so I consider that the "proper" way. YMMV. Tightening them down is just a way to simplify setups and string changes but breaks the intended functionality of the bridge.
Unless you have a Robert Cray strat
Chris of Arabia
Desert RATT
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
I just set mine to float as per the Fender specs.
Apropos of nothing, I feel the need to lay hands on I6's Strat...
I just set mine to float as per the Fender specs.
Apropos of nothing, I feel the need to lay hands on I6's Strat...
Quencho092
New member
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
The whole E string gets 1/2 step of whammy max, G string gets a minor 3rd......it's pretty much common sense.....
The saddles have different distances, when you torque the whammy, the G saddle sticks out more (if you use a custom set of strings that intonate differently than this it wont be the case) than the E saddle when intonated properly so when it rotates you get more of an increase in tension in the G than the E.
IT has absolutely nothing to do with the angle of the claw, the entire strat trem would have to rotate differently in order to prove carl's theory of claw angle=different pitch ranges in different strings. It's just a discrepancy in distance traveled because of saddle positioning.
More important than his application of pseudo science is his notion that calibrating the trem's travel distance to an exact musical interval would be more musical and applicable! Carl is a spectacular player.
JUST HAD AN IDEA- if one used a custom set of strings on a strat that intonated perfectly with all the saddles at the same adjustment, this guitar would get more accurate pitches when using whammy vs a standard set of strings with the saddles at different distances? Any ideas on this?
The whole E string gets 1/2 step of whammy max, G string gets a minor 3rd......it's pretty much common sense.....
The saddles have different distances, when you torque the whammy, the G saddle sticks out more (if you use a custom set of strings that intonate differently than this it wont be the case) than the E saddle when intonated properly so when it rotates you get more of an increase in tension in the G than the E.
IT has absolutely nothing to do with the angle of the claw, the entire strat trem would have to rotate differently in order to prove carl's theory of claw angle=different pitch ranges in different strings. It's just a discrepancy in distance traveled because of saddle positioning.
More important than his application of pseudo science is his notion that calibrating the trem's travel distance to an exact musical interval would be more musical and applicable! Carl is a spectacular player.
JUST HAD AN IDEA- if one used a custom set of strings on a strat that intonated perfectly with all the saddles at the same adjustment, this guitar would get more accurate pitches when using whammy vs a standard set of strings with the saddles at different distances? Any ideas on this?
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Chris of Arabia
Desert RATT
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
I'm not even sure that would work due to the need to have the saddle height set to follow the camber of the fingerboard. Even if their lengths are set identically, the saddles would still describe a different arc when the trem arm is moved.
I'm not even sure that would work due to the need to have the saddle height set to follow the camber of the fingerboard. Even if their lengths are set identically, the saddles would still describe a different arc when the trem arm is moved.
Gunny47
New member
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
Whoa I forgot about that video! I've been meaning to restring/resetup my '56 NOS strat the past few days, but I got sidetracked with writing and rehearsals. I had time to do it tonight and happened to find/read through this thread before starting.
I have custom DR Pure Blues strings with a wound G. (13, 17, 24w, 30, 42, 52). I always had 11s on the guitar and always had 4 trem springs with the bridge decked - never really used the bar too much (despite having Callaham Trem Block and their short stainless trem arm). I put the 13s on, took a spring off and configured them like the video 10101. Then I adjusted the truss bar, action, intonation, claw etc.
I got it so it's floating. 1st string goes up a half step, 2nd string goes up a whole step, 3rd string goes up a whole step (not exactly intune, but really close). I'll mess more with the intonation/claw tomorrow but it's pretty darn cool now. Some interesting things happen when you pull the bar up while playing chords hehe. I get like pedalsteel voiceleading with certain voicings which is dope! And the guitar sounds SO MUCH BETTER with the bridge floating. It sounds more open and less planky (13s help too).
Next I gotta do the coffee trick on the switch tip, knobs and trem arm tip so they can match my Antiquity covers! Thanks to the folks at the SDUGF for enlightening me! I'll be playing my strat much more now!
Whoa I forgot about that video! I've been meaning to restring/resetup my '56 NOS strat the past few days, but I got sidetracked with writing and rehearsals. I had time to do it tonight and happened to find/read through this thread before starting.
I have custom DR Pure Blues strings with a wound G. (13, 17, 24w, 30, 42, 52). I always had 11s on the guitar and always had 4 trem springs with the bridge decked - never really used the bar too much (despite having Callaham Trem Block and their short stainless trem arm). I put the 13s on, took a spring off and configured them like the video 10101. Then I adjusted the truss bar, action, intonation, claw etc.
I got it so it's floating. 1st string goes up a half step, 2nd string goes up a whole step, 3rd string goes up a whole step (not exactly intune, but really close). I'll mess more with the intonation/claw tomorrow but it's pretty darn cool now. Some interesting things happen when you pull the bar up while playing chords hehe. I get like pedalsteel voiceleading with certain voicings which is dope! And the guitar sounds SO MUCH BETTER with the bridge floating. It sounds more open and less planky (13s help too).
Next I gotta do the coffee trick on the switch tip, knobs and trem arm tip so they can match my Antiquity covers! Thanks to the folks at the SDUGF for enlightening me! I'll be playing my strat much more now!
Quencho092
New member
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
We have similar setups gunny! flatwounds? I'm doing the 13's with 24w g as well and love it, your post has me contemplating going to a float.
BTW, please neatly package all of the items in your sig and mail them to me when you get the chance. Thanks bro!
We have similar setups gunny! flatwounds? I'm doing the 13's with 24w g as well and love it, your post has me contemplating going to a float.
BTW, please neatly package all of the items in your sig and mail them to me when you get the chance. Thanks bro!
wahwah
GumbyLoveologist
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
I have mine set floating so that I get an even semi-tone up across all of the strings. I like to use vibrato in its true sense, to shimmer chords and single notes above and below the central pitch. Having only downward movement doesn't allow for this. I recently had my three springs replaced with 5 Raw Vintage springs with the lower tension, and the vibrato system feels fantastic, only slightly stiffer than with the 3 standard springs, but with a beautiful balance across the strings and a great solid feel to the whole guitar. It's 44 years old and is always professionally set up, so its tuning is remarkably stable even with regular use of the vibrato arm.
Cheers......................................... wahwah
I have mine set floating so that I get an even semi-tone up across all of the strings. I like to use vibrato in its true sense, to shimmer chords and single notes above and below the central pitch. Having only downward movement doesn't allow for this. I recently had my three springs replaced with 5 Raw Vintage springs with the lower tension, and the vibrato system feels fantastic, only slightly stiffer than with the 3 standard springs, but with a beautiful balance across the strings and a great solid feel to the whole guitar. It's 44 years old and is always professionally set up, so its tuning is remarkably stable even with regular use of the vibrato arm.
Cheers......................................... wahwah
Gunny47
New member
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
HAHA! I don't even have my strat in my sig (or my PGn/CustomCustomb Epi LP Standard) - had to make room for my shameless plug hehe. So I'll still get to hang onto those!
I'd definitely recommend trying it (I mean the folks here turned me onto it hehe and I've only been doing it for *checks watch* 43 minutes) it's really easy to change it back if you don't dig it...
I only have flats on one of my guitars: The Campellone archtop. I have George Benson Thomastik 14 gauge flats that are superb. But that's my jazz guitar only really. The DR Pure Blues are still nice and warm and I can play R&B and rock with em. Flats kinda limit me to Jazz personally. Those strings really speak on that guitar though moreso than every kind of jazz-voiced roundwound (I experimented with different brands for a year).
Man the 24 wound is such a good gauge for the 3rd string. In standard tuning I can still bend it a good amount and it just sounds amazing. Heavy tops, light bottoms (definitely NOT my preference in women) but in strings it's a relatively-unexplored, awesome option!
HAHA! I don't even have my strat in my sig (or my PGn/CustomCustomb Epi LP Standard) - had to make room for my shameless plug hehe. So I'll still get to hang onto those!
I'd definitely recommend trying it (I mean the folks here turned me onto it hehe and I've only been doing it for *checks watch* 43 minutes) it's really easy to change it back if you don't dig it...
I only have flats on one of my guitars: The Campellone archtop. I have George Benson Thomastik 14 gauge flats that are superb. But that's my jazz guitar only really. The DR Pure Blues are still nice and warm and I can play R&B and rock with em. Flats kinda limit me to Jazz personally. Those strings really speak on that guitar though moreso than every kind of jazz-voiced roundwound (I experimented with different brands for a year).
Man the 24 wound is such a good gauge for the 3rd string. In standard tuning I can still bend it a good amount and it just sounds amazing. Heavy tops, light bottoms (definitely NOT my preference in women) but in strings it's a relatively-unexplored, awesome option!
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
i used decked for 20 years but ive discovered the joys of floating. Both are good.
i used decked for 20 years but ive discovered the joys of floating. Both are good.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
You don't even have to try an angled claw to know that it's physically impossible to adjust how much each string individually bends off pitch by angling the claw. The video was kind of pointless, because it just states the obvious. All he had to do was include the last 30 seconds, in which he explains why it doesn't make a difference. The block is not made of rubber! All you are doing by angling the claw is putting tension on certain springs more than others. The block, being a common and inflexible mounting point for the springs and the strings, "averages" the different spring tensions out in the end.
You don't even have to try an angled claw to know that it's physically impossible to adjust how much each string individually bends off pitch by angling the claw. The video was kind of pointless, because it just states the obvious. All he had to do was include the last 30 seconds, in which he explains why it doesn't make a difference. The block is not made of rubber! All you are doing by angling the claw is putting tension on certain springs more than others. The block, being a common and inflexible mounting point for the springs and the strings, "averages" the different spring tensions out in the end.
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Gunny47
New member
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
Yeah, I just futzed with it and the angling of the claw didn't do anything when I kept the same overall tension... Myth busted!
Yeah, I just futzed with it and the angling of the claw didn't do anything when I kept the same overall tension... Myth busted!
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
Carl is not a tech, he is simply telling how to set this up using his guitar, with his strings...
I have done this set up on several guitars now using various different string gauges, etc...
Sometimes you have to angle the claw, sometimes you don't...
Also, while we're at it the guy in the clip you posted was only getting close to the tones Carl mentioned...on top of that he is using a completely different vibrato design...I know they are similar but those black springs (like in the clip, like the ones that com in most American Standard, Deluxe, etc) Strats right now have a different tension...
If you take your Strat and a tuner and set it up like Carl does it takes a while to get all 3 pitches dead on and depending on your string gauge, the number of springs you use, etc and with some set ups it might not even work right.
I tried it last year on a buddies Strat (he really wanted the effect) but he uses 5 springs and no matter how hard I tried I could not make it with with 5 springs...
Anyway.
The point of me posting the clip was far less how to do it, you're a smart guy I'm sure you could make it work but the point was far more about how musical I felt like that set up was and how much I enjoyed it.
Going back to the claw angle for just a second...I have my claw angled and HAD TO ANGLE IT to make it work with the pitches correctly...NOT BULL.
That said the string gauges make a BIG difference...when I was using 10-52's and switched to 10-46's the angle changed a bit.
FWIW, as a point of reference Carl uses hybrid set of strings that run 9/12/16/26/37/46
Carl is not a tech, he is simply telling how to set this up using his guitar, with his strings...
I have done this set up on several guitars now using various different string gauges, etc...
Sometimes you have to angle the claw, sometimes you don't...
Also, while we're at it the guy in the clip you posted was only getting close to the tones Carl mentioned...on top of that he is using a completely different vibrato design...I know they are similar but those black springs (like in the clip, like the ones that com in most American Standard, Deluxe, etc) Strats right now have a different tension...
If you take your Strat and a tuner and set it up like Carl does it takes a while to get all 3 pitches dead on and depending on your string gauge, the number of springs you use, etc and with some set ups it might not even work right.
I tried it last year on a buddies Strat (he really wanted the effect) but he uses 5 springs and no matter how hard I tried I could not make it with with 5 springs...
Anyway.
The point of me posting the clip was far less how to do it, you're a smart guy I'm sure you could make it work but the point was far more about how musical I felt like that set up was and how much I enjoyed it.
Going back to the claw angle for just a second...I have my claw angled and HAD TO ANGLE IT to make it work with the pitches correctly...NOT BULL.
That said the string gauges make a BIG difference...when I was using 10-52's and switched to 10-46's the angle changed a bit.
FWIW, as a point of reference Carl uses hybrid set of strings that run 9/12/16/26/37/46
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the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
I agree...I mean you can do whatever you want with it but to me floating is what Leo intended and that alone makes it the right way to set it up.
I mean, i's really the only way that it even works as designed...
The point of the strat bridge was to be able to apply vibrato to notes and chords, by definition vibrato is a slight change in pitch both up and down from the pitches starting point...if you deck the vibrato you can never, ever get that up bend on the vibrato making the pitch go down only has a different sound...
Listen to David Gilmour, he uses a strat vibrato the way Leo intended...a slight vibrato both up and down from strat pitch and to me thats a far more musical way then just dropping the pitch.
That said we're all different and I believe there is no real wrong way to do anything in terms of music or gear so do whatever you want but thats the way I do it...
They're designed to float, so I consider that the "proper" way. YMMV. Tightening them down is just a way to simplify setups and string changes but breaks the intended functionality of the bridge.
Unless you have a Robert Cray strat
I agree...I mean you can do whatever you want with it but to me floating is what Leo intended and that alone makes it the right way to set it up.
I mean, i's really the only way that it even works as designed...
The point of the strat bridge was to be able to apply vibrato to notes and chords, by definition vibrato is a slight change in pitch both up and down from the pitches starting point...if you deck the vibrato you can never, ever get that up bend on the vibrato making the pitch go down only has a different sound...
Listen to David Gilmour, he uses a strat vibrato the way Leo intended...a slight vibrato both up and down from strat pitch and to me thats a far more musical way then just dropping the pitch.
That said we're all different and I believe there is no real wrong way to do anything in terms of music or gear so do whatever you want but thats the way I do it...
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
Half step on all 6 huh...I bet that wasn't easy either!
I've been curious about those raw vintage springs...I like the added resonance of using more springs but my set up simply doesn't work correctly with 5 springs, thanks for the heads up , I might try those!
Half step on all 6 huh...I bet that wasn't easy either!
I've been curious about those raw vintage springs...I like the added resonance of using more springs but my set up simply doesn't work correctly with 5 springs, thanks for the heads up , I might try those!
wahwah
GumbyLoveologist
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
Gotta love what a good tech can do. It doesn't hurt when it's a master like the brilliant Dave Ulbrick.
Here's a demo showing the half step across all strings, and the joys of a floating bridge giving the true vibrato effect across chords. This is the Strat loaded with the 5 Raw Vintage springs.
http://soundcloud.com/geoff-wells/strat-vibrato-demo
Cheers................................... wahwah
Gotta love what a good tech can do. It doesn't hurt when it's a master like the brilliant Dave Ulbrick.
Here's a demo showing the half step across all strings, and the joys of a floating bridge giving the true vibrato effect across chords. This is the Strat loaded with the 5 Raw Vintage springs.
http://soundcloud.com/geoff-wells/strat-vibrato-demo
Cheers................................... wahwah
muttznmongrelz
New member
Re: Strat Guys....Bridge...Floating Or Decked?
Matter of fact...the bridge is blocked down ala the Clapton Model.
Matter of fact...the bridge is blocked down ala the Clapton Model.
