To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

I'll pick up a lee ranaldo jazzmaster on the bay if it pops up. i just hope they dont try to sell it as vintage.

Just get one of these...

And a set of these...

And be done with it...

I hate to suggest non Duncan pickups on Seymours forum but Seymour doesn't make or sell them so I will this time.

They are Curtis Novak pickups and they are Widerange Buckers custom made on Jazzmaster bobbins so they can be put in a Jazzmaster with no mods at all.

 

[Chad]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

Love the middle position on a JM. Nothing else exactly like it. I have a 2001 AV62RI. The neck is shimmed (was like that when I bought it new), it's totally stock and plays great. Those tremolos are really special. I don't need any "modern improvements".

 

[astrozombie]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

Love the middle position on a JM. Nothing else exactly like it. I have a 2001 AV62RI. The neck is shimmed (was like that when I bought it new), it's totally stock and plays great. Those tremolos are really special. I don't need any "modern improvements".

sweeeeeeet.

I saw this and went, theyve thought of everything. lol

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

sweeeeeeet.

I saw this and went, theyve thought of everything. lol

Curtis has a lot of JM replacement pickups...P-90's, PAF's, Charlie Christain, Widerange Buckers, stacked pickups even a Telecaster bridge pickup all that fit in a JM with no mods...he's really got just about everything!

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

And a set of these...

And be done with it...

I hate to suggest non Duncan pickups on Seymours forum but Seymour doesn't make or sell them so I will this time.

They are Curtis Novak pickups and they are Widerange Buckers custom made on Jazzmaster bobbins so they can be put in a Jazzmaster with no mods at all.

Does he also do Brain Surgery by any chance? I have freind with an Aneuryism that might need some surgery. If he's had such good luck in hid garage replicating vintage Fenders pickups after a year or three, I figure maybe he can try some Brain surgery?

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

I've got an AVRI JM, but before I bought it I spent some time looking at the CP models, which were brand new at the time. The best way I can explain the difference is that the CP design makes for a better guitar, but a worse Jazzmaster. The pickups are much more rocking and the changes to the string break angle over the bridge makes for a stronger attack and a bit better sustain.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

Does he also do Brain Surgery by any chance? I have freind with an Aneuryism that might need some surgery. If he's had such good luck in hid garage replicating vintage Fenders pickups after a year or three, I figure maybe he can try some Brain surgery?

ya know, everytime you make some bone head post like this you prove how childish you truly are...

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

I've got an AVRI JM, but before I bought it I spent some time looking at the CP models, which were brand new at the time. The best way I can explain the difference is that the CP design makes for a better guitar, but a worse Jazzmaster. The pickups are much more rocking and the changes to the string break angle over the bridge makes for a stronger attack and a bit better sustain.

Interesting take on things!

I never liked thelack of string breakover on JM's and Jags and think that those are welcome changes...the pickups, not sure about that.

I have a feeling I'll end up with a set of Antiquities in mine!

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

No, it's certainly a flawed design. When I was shopping though, I had my heart set on a) surf green and b) replicating the Jazzmaster sound on a handful of favorite records. As such, the changes to the CPJM design, minor though they were, felt a little like "not a REAL Jazzmaster..." In retrospect, that seems silly.

I've had periodic problems with buzzing saddles because of the AUTHENTIC features on the AVRI. In fact, my Jazzmaster has, until recently, been a bit of a disappointment. I've had plenty of experience setting up guitars, but I could never get that one set up properly. It seemed like everything I tried just made it worse. And the sound suffered as well. A LOT.

I took it to a pro to get set up a couple of months ago and it's like having a totally different guitar. It's not a three dimensional blues solo guitar -- that's just not what these pickups do -- but I quite like what it does now.

BTW, speaking of pickups, I'd recommend the Antiquity Is. Mine came with some Fralin pups that were wound like Strat bobbins. WAYYYY too thin and bright. I replaced those with AntIIs, which were still so bright that for the past two years, I've rarely had my tone knob above 5. Prior to the recent setup, I also tended to roll off the volume a little, just for the treble cut. That's been unnecesary lately, but it's still definitely a bright guitar.

If you get Ant Is and don't like them, I'll totally trade them for my IIs.

Interesting take on things!

I never liked thelack of string breakover on JM's and Jags and think that those are welcome changes...the pickups, not sure about that.

I have a feeling I'll end up with a set of Antiquities in mine!

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

On the pickup issue I'm thinking that if the stock ones don't cut it I'll go with either Antiquity II's or the standard Duncan Vintage JM pickups. That said if you have a set of Ant II's you want to move I might be interested now, feel frree to drop me a PM if that is the case.

 

[Chad]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

No, it's certainly a flawed design. When I was shopping though, I had my heart set on a) surf green and b) replicating the Jazzmaster sound on a handful of favorite records. As such, the changes to the CPJM design, minor though they were, felt a little like "not a REAL Jazzmaster..." In retrospect, that seems silly.

I've had periodic problems with buzzing saddles because of the AUTHENTIC features on the AVRI. In fact, my Jazzmaster has, until recently, been a bit of a disappointment. I've had plenty of experience setting up guitars, but I could never get that one set up properly. It seemed like everything I tried just made it worse. And the sound suffered as well. A LOT.

I took it to a pro to get set up a couple of months ago and it's like having a totally different guitar. It's not a three dimensional blues solo guitar -- that's just not what these pickups do -- but I quite like what it does now.

BTW, speaking of pickups, I'd recommend the Antiquity Is. Mine came with some Fralin pups that were wound like Strat bobbins. WAYYYY too thin and bright. I replaced those with AntIIs, which were still so bright that for the past two years, I've rarely had my tone knob above 5. Prior to the recent setup, I also tended to roll off the volume a little, just for the treble cut. That's been unnecesary lately, but it's still definitely a bright guitar.

If you get Ant Is and don't like them, I'll totally trade them for my IIs.

You first said it's a flawed design, then mention that a person properly set it up and all was fine. Did the person who set it up leave the original design alone or did they make modifications?

Jazzmasters and Jags are no doubt a challenge to setup, but that doesn't mean they are flawed. When I bought my JM, the dealer I bought it from had absolutely no clue how to set it up. I did some research including taking the tremolo apart to make sure I fully understood how it and everything else worked. Once I learned how to properly set it up, my AV62RI JM plays great. It came with a neck shim from the factory. The only "mod" I made was to to put some plumbers tape on the pivot screws on the bridge because they have a tendency to loosen without that. Other than that, it is stock.

It is a unique design, but it seems a lot of people who don't really know what they are doing pull out the "flawed design" card too easily and hearing that can get a little tiresome.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

The Jazzmaster/Jag tremolo is a flawed design...no 2 ways around it.

Fender guitars already have no neck angle and little to no headstock angle so string trees provide breakover angle at the headstock to provide some angle at the headstock.

On top of that Fender issue the Jazz/Jag trem provides very little breakover angle at the bridge as well...

All those things added together make them harder to keep in tune, the rob sustain and that is the reason for the strings jumping out of the ssddles and guys have been trying to fix that for years...things like the Buzz Stop were designed as a fix and those things are almost as old as the Jazzmaster is in the first place!

With the Classic Player Fender themselves wanted to fix it w/o add on parts...

Moving the tremolo closer to the bridge increased the breakover angle on one end...then angling the neck pocket allowed them to use a taller bridge thus increasing the string breakover even more plus it let them have a little angle at the neck w/o shims and such then just in case this wasn't enough to give the gutar all the breakover angle and string tnesion it needed they used the adjusto-matic bridge to insure the strings would stay put...

These are corrections to a 50+ year old design and in many opinions they are long over due...

Lots of vintage guitar designs have flaws...

-3 saddles Tele bridges

-neck pickup placement on Strats

-Upper fret access on Les Pauls

-Weak neck joints on SG's

-heavy headstocks + weak nut areas on Firebirds

These are all things that could and maybe should be corrected but people just deal with them...that doesn't make them bad guitars just quircky.

 

[astrozombie]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

The Jazzmaster/Jag tremolo is a flawed design...no 2 ways around it.

Fender guitars already have no neck angle and little to no headstock angle so string trees provide breakover angle at the headstock to provide some angle at the headstock.

On top of that Fender issue the Jazz/Jag trem provides very little breakover angle at the bridge as well...

All those things added together make them harder to keep in tune, the rob sustain and that is the reason for the strings jumping out of the ssddles and guys have been trying to fix that for years...things like the Buzz Stop were designed as a fix and those things are almost as old as the Jazzmaster is in the first place!

With the Classic Player Fender themselves wanted to fix it w/o add on parts...

Moving the tremolo closer to the bridge increased the breakover angle on one end...then angling the neck pocket allowed them to use a taller bridge thus increasing the string breakover even more plus it let them have a little angle at the neck w/o shims and such then just in case this wasn't enough to give the gutar all the breakover angle and string tnesion it needed they used the adjusto-matic bridge to insure the strings would stay put...

These are corrections to a 50+ year old design and in many opinions they are long over due...

Lots of vintage guitar designs have flaws...

-3 saddles Tele bridges

-neck pickup placement on Strats

-Upper fret access on Les Pauls

-Weak neck joints on SG's

-heavy headstocks + weak nut areas on Firebirds

These are all things that could and maybe should be corrected but people just deal with them...that doesn't make them bad guitars just quircky.

I wouldn't consider those points flaws. Like the other guitars you mentioned, I consider them the properties that make a design different than another.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

I wouldn't consider those points flaws. Like the other guitars you mentioned, I consider them the properties that make a design different than another.

But if you want to talk tech terms they are flaws...I mean look at a vintage style Tele...you can't set each string on it's own for height and intonation! From a design standpoint that sucks...now, does it make it more Tele like to keep that flaw...many say yes but some do say no...

You can play open harmonics on the neck pickup of a strat because the pickup is right under the harmonic node...suckage however that position where the pickup is gives it that Strat sound...

I'm not saying that these flaws haven't lead to a sound or feel in these guitars but from a design stand point only, they are flaws...

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

To me, a design that is prone to certain problems is flawed, even if it's possible to get the finicky beast set just so that you don't notice the flaws. Yes, I like the guitar a lot more since having it set up, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some inherent compromises required in the setup to overcome the...wait for it....flaws of the design.

That said, yes, those flaws are a part of the Jazzzmaster thing just like the flaws that TGWIF listed for other instruments are an inherent part of the (most traditional) things for those models.

What gets tiresome to me is the attitude that something is either perfect, and must be defended against all insults (perceived and real), or a total piece of junk and should be derided to all who dare enjoy it. Can't it be flawed AND I like it despite those flaws?

Jazzmasters and Jags are no doubt a challenge to setup, but that doesn't mean they are flawed.

It is a unique design, but it seems a lot of people who don't really know what they are doing pull out the "flawed design" card too easily and hearing that can get a little tiresome.

 

[Chad]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

To me, a design that is prone to certain problems is flawed, even if it's possible to get the finicky beast set just so that you don't notice the flaws. Yes, I like the guitar a lot more since having it set up, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some inherent compromises required in the setup to overcome the...wait for it....flaws of the design.

That said, yes, those flaws are a part of the Jazzzmaster thing just like the flaws that TGWIF listed for other instruments are an inherent part of the (most traditional) things for those models.

What gets tiresome to me is the attitude that something is either perfect, and must be defended against all insults (perceived and real), or a total piece of junk and should be derided to all who dare enjoy it. Can't it be flawed AND I like it despite those flaws?

I never said the design was perfect. I also still hold that I don't think it's a "flawed" design, however, I guess it gets into semantics at this point.

The word I would agree with is "quirky". Quirky in a sense that it doesn't align with the modern idea of how guitars should work and setup.

But when those guitars were designed people were using a lot heavier strings than most people want to use these days. With heavier strings, pretty much any "flaw" you pointed out is no longer a problem. So when these guitars were designed they weren't "flawed".

As for mine, with a shim in the neck pocket and at least 10 gauge strings (preferably at least 11s) and some plumbers tape on the bridge posts all is good.

One question: were JMs and Jags originally shipped with a neck shim? My 2001 AV62RI had a shim in place when I bought it brand new.

 

[astrozombie]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

I never said the design was perfect. I also still hold that I don't think it's a "flawed" design, however, I guess it gets into semantics at this point.

The word I would agree with is "quirky". Quirky in a sense that it doesn't align with the modern idea of how guitars should work and setup.

But when those guitars were designed people were using a lot heavier strings than most people want to use these days. With heavier strings, pretty much any "flaw" you pointed out is no longer a problem. So when these guitars were designed they weren't "flawed".

As for mine, with a shim in the neck pocket and at least 10 gauge strings (preferably at least 11s) and some plumbers tape on the bridge posts all is good.

One question: were JMs and Jags originally shipped with a neck shim? My 2001 AV62RI had a shim in place when I bought it brand new.

While my Jaguar did not come with a shim, i have seen other fender instruments come pre shimmed from the factory.

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

I bought mine used, as they had discontinued surf green. It was shimmed when I got it -- moreso now -- but I don't know if it came that way from the factory.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

In the 50's and 60's they didn't come with shims...they might have been added over the years but not stock, at least not that I know of...

 

[Rich_T]

Re: To anyone who's played a Fender Jazzmaster..

This thread makes me miss my Jazzmaster.