What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

[Mattr4president]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

Uggghhh...

I had a Randall combo for a while that just sounded terrible. I could NEVER get a decent high-gain tone out of it. Some of the bands mentioned in this thread have good tone, even if it is higher gain than I would ever play. None of them are using solid-state amps. Who is using solid-state amps? Anyone? Seriously?

In fact, who even makes solid-state amps anymore? Marshall MG, and who else? I think even Randall, which was the king in my mind, got out of it, unless they've still got maybe one product. But seriously, what solid-state amp is well respected today? And by solid-state, of course, I mean non-digital.

The only solid-state amp I can think of that's worth its salt (i.e. used by professionals) is the Roland stuff, and the only one of those that pros use is the Jazz Chorus, which is definitely not known as a high-gain amp.

Never played one so don't know if it's worth it. But Def Hi-gain.
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/ISP-Technologies-Theta-300W-Guitar-Amp-Head?sku=483011

and here's a cool little thing I read today on solid state amps. I still think Tuibes are better but to each theor own.
http://www.frugalguitarist.com/Frugal.aspx?Issue=15&Page=Solid State Hate

 

[Jackson Distortion]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

I was just saying it in reference to the fact that it is very easy to install a modern sounding high gain circuit into an SS amp at any given time, and still have enough gain in it to push it well into the future. Not really meaning that one had to use it's technology, lol.

 

[eschoendorff]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

KSE tend to pretty much always have really smooth, dark, but not muffled tones. I really despise that 80s, super mid scooped, fizzy crap like the old Metallica records and I'm glad metal production moved along and people realized a more mid heavy tone with far less high end was the way to go.
Adam D is one hell of an engineer, seriously knows a thing or 100 about mic placement and amp settings to get to those tones.
Holy Diver (KSE's version) was tracked using SLO-100s and it shows in how smooth and liquid it sounds

Meh... sounds like faked aggression to me. With modern hi gain amps, players tend to rely more on the amp gain than playing technique (hitting the strings hard/different types of palm muting) for their sound. Of course, that doesn't mean that ALL modern hi gain players do that, but back in the day when gain wasn't as easily obtained, players had to make due and wrestle the instrument a little more to get the sound. For me, that's where I hear the aggression - especially in terms of rhythm guitar sounds. For leads, it's another story...

 

[eschoendorff]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

Quoted for truth. Playing heavy has way more to do with sounding heavy than anything about the gear you use.

Half the time, I'm playing heavy music on a telecaster with stock single coils in it, and not because I don't have anything more appropriate to use, but because I prefer it that way.

Aside from that kind of nasally midrange honk, no one would ever guess I was using a tele through a relatively-mid-gain amp tone. It sounds like there is a lot more going on. I've just found that, by using a good authoritative pick attack, that I can get really effective metal sounds out of a simple, not-modern-by-a-longshot kind of rig.

I LOVE it when people do that. Come out and just kick everyone's arse with an unassuming rig. Seen it more than a few times before...

 

[some_dude]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

Meh... sounds like faked aggression to me. With modern hi gain amps, players tend to rely more on the amp gain than playing technique (hitting the strings hard/different types of palm muting) for their sound. Of course, that doesn't mean that ALL modern hi gain players do that, but back in the day when gain wasn't as easily obtained, players had to make due and wrestle the instrument a little more to get the sound. For me, that's where I hear the aggression - especially in terms of rhythm guitar sounds. For leads, it's another story...

It's just hittin' the strings hard. Nothing special about it. Anyone can fake that.

 

[sosomething]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

Uggghhh...

I had a Randall combo for a while that just sounded terrible. I could NEVER get a decent high-gain tone out of it. Some of the bands mentioned in this thread have good tone, even if it is higher gain than I would ever play. None of them are using solid-state amps. Who is using solid-state amps? Anyone? Seriously?

In fact, who even makes solid-state amps anymore? Marshall MG, and who else? I think even Randall, which was the king in my mind, got out of it, unless they've still got maybe one product. But seriously, what solid-state amp is well respected today? And by solid-state, of course, I mean non-digital.

The only solid-state amp I can think of that's worth its salt (i.e. used by professionals) is the Roland stuff, and the only one of those that pros use is the Jazz Chorus, which is definitely not known as a high-gain amp.

I think Tech21 is more or less respected, but that doesn't mean Jackson Distortion isn't a crazy person.

 

[sosomething]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

Yeah, you're right.

I say it every time someone posts something about any amp over X number of watts as being too loud. Thought it looked funny when someone else said it.

Hey, fair enough. Just because it's been said before doesn't mean you aren't still right!

It's just hittin' the strings hard. Nothing special about it. Anyone can fake that.

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm picking on you, but how exactly do you fake hitting the strings hard?

And no, it's not just hitting the strings hard, for that matter! There's a whole feel/technique thing that goes into getting that sound. Just picking harder won't do it (IMHO).

But ultimately... I'm not wound up enough over this to argue a whole bunch.

 

[some_dude]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm picking on you, but how exactly do you fake hitting the strings hard?

And no, it's not just hitting the strings hard, for that matter! There's a whole feel/technique thing that goes into getting that sound. Just picking harder won't do it (IMHO).

But ultimately... I'm not wound up enough over this to argue a whole bunch.

Swap hitting strings harder for high gain into everything you just said above and you'll see my point entirely.

(and lets keep in mind that I switch it up between high and low gain amps... so I ride both sides of the fence in this argument)

 

[TSE]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

The ISP Teta head is quite amazing! I'll just say that there is a reason it costs $1700. It's every bit like a tube amp except the bass is not loose like some of the high gain heads out there. Tonally it's like a Recto with somewhat Marshall flavor in the mids, just fantastic. And you don't have to change tubes which is nice.

 

[sosomething]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

Swap hitting strings harder for high gain into everything you just said above and you'll see my point entirely.

(and lets keep in mind that I switch it up between high and low gain amps... so I ride both sides of the fence in this argument)

I actually have no idea what you're trying to say.

All I'm trying to say is that using a heavy technique does more for your tone than using tons of gain.

If there's some kind of amp argument happening in this thread, I haven't bothered to notice....

 

[some_dude]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

All I'm trying to say is that using a heavy technique does more for your tone

I think you get it just fine.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

Are you going to tell me this is fake? If you do, you must not know anything about Devin. The whole album was criticized for being too serious a Strapping release as he had newly inspired emotion from the 9/11 attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rqn_otVoNU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GTmNr0WHcc

 

[sosomething]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

I think you get it just fine.

I'm not even convinced we're speaking the same language.

Could you... reiterate/clarify your point for me? Because at the moment I can't figure out if you're agreeing with me or if you're trying to paint me into some corner opposite a position you feel you've stated.

 

[some_dude]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

I'm not even convinced we're speaking the same language.

Could you... reiterate/clarify your point for me? Because at the moment I can't figure out if you're agreeing with me or if you're trying to paint me into some corner opposite a position you feel you've stated.

Long story short. Playing 'heavy' is all technique and has nothing to do with gain. You can fake aggression via high gain... or you can fake aggression by hitting the strings harder. Either way you're still faking it.

 

[sosomething]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

Long story short. Playing 'heavy' is all technique and has nothing to do with gain. You can fake aggression via high gain... or you can fake aggression by hitting the strings harder. Either way you're still faking it.

That was crusty talking about fake aggression... not me. I don't even think about that. I just like listening and playing, man! I'm not gonna sit here and try to decide who's sincere and who's faking it. That's the kind of thing teenagers argue about.

But - it sounds like you DO agree with me on the heaviness = technique thing, though. I couldn't be too sure because it wasn't clear from your posts.

To be fair, a good heavy tone is a combination of gear, settings, and playing technique. I mean, I know I'm stating the obvious here, but I think it needed said for the record.

 

[cronnin]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

Ok. Talking only about rhythm guitars. Listen to like first 30 seconds.


Vintage Gain - Judas Priest ( JTM/ JMP?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVAcjSsxl08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psTUiQzNoxw

Classic Gain - Poison (?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvPemBo-MNs

High Gain - Motley Crue, G'n'R, early Metallica (JCM800)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQMBz6HvSoM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2dI_a3GpS0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96J1FR_3X1s

Modern High Gain- Rammstein, latter Metallica (Mesa)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNhYonvsTF8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVr6EjIT4Hg



I would say that Modern High Gain foundation lies in active pickups... like almost everything with EMG or Blackouts?



As for faking the aggression, it's kinda impossible.
You can't fake hitting strings harder. That's why these new kids use so much distortion, because they have not enough upper body strength or playing technique.
Try 'faking' hitting strings harder in the middle of the Hit The Light solo, and we'll see how you end up

 

[some_dude]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

To be fair, a good heavy tone is a combination of gear, settings, and playing technique. I mean, I know I'm stating the obvious here, but I think it needed said for the record.

Exactly. Sorry I wasn't being clearer... probably one of those things that doesn't translate too well via text.

But - it sounds like you DO agree with me on the heaviness = technique thing, though.

Most definitely.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

anything post Van Halen. his is a hot marshall sound. the other modern template is the 6l6 based rectifier sound.

 

[some_dude]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

As for faking the aggression, it's kinda impossible.

See: Emo.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: What does modern high-gain mean to you? (NAD related)

Are you going to tell me this is fake? If you do, you must not know anything about Devin. The whole album was criticized for being too serious a Strapping release as he had newly inspired emotion from the 9/11 attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rqn_otVoNU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GTmNr0WHcc

That's some of the worst excuse for music I've ever seen. I don't know anything about Devin, and I bet his mother wishes she were in my boat. Please deposit an additional minute and a half of life into my account.