NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
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blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
+1. The premise of the thread is pointless. A guitar that costs 5 times as much as another should be a better-made, better-sounding instrument. We all know that. Does a Gibson LP sound and feel 5 times better than an Agile LP; no. The more you spend, usually the more you get; but there's a diminishing return factor that kicks in. The amount of improvement is a smaller percentage with every dollar spent. At what point is 'good enough', considering your playing ability and financial situation? There's plenty of guys with expensive guitars that don't have the chops, and look pretty dumb when they get on stage and play guitar hero.
If you live in a run-down house and drive an unreliable old car, but own some high-end guitars, you're a hero on this forum. Every one else you know (starting with your family) would probably call you irresponsible and immature, all the more so if you're a mediocre player. I guess it all depends on who you're talking to.
+1. The premise of the thread is pointless. A guitar that costs 5 times as much as another should be a better-made, better-sounding instrument. We all know that. Does a Gibson LP sound and feel 5 times better than an Agile LP; no. The more you spend, usually the more you get; but there's a diminishing return factor that kicks in. The amount of improvement is a smaller percentage with every dollar spent. At what point is 'good enough', considering your playing ability and financial situation? There's plenty of guys with expensive guitars that don't have the chops, and look pretty dumb when they get on stage and play guitar hero.
If you live in a run-down house and drive an unreliable old car, but own some high-end guitars, you're a hero on this forum. Every one else you know (starting with your family) would probably call you irresponsible and immature, all the more so if you're a mediocre player. I guess it all depends on who you're talking to.
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
Truer words were never spoken.
Truer words were never spoken.
JOLLY
Super Simonologist
JOLLY
Super Simonologist
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
I see stuff somewhat like that all of the time while working. I couldn't tell you how many times I've pulled up to a trailer/mobile home that is about to fall in and fall apart, but there's an Escalade and a Hummer parked out front. Some people just don't have their priorities straight.
IanBallard
New member
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
+967 x infinity squared!
There's a lot of very mediocre bands out there that use very expensive Les Pauls and saturate the tone with so much distortion, it really doesn't matter what guitar they have. On the other hand, there are some very good players like Joe Bonamassa who definitely squeeze every ounce of tone out of his Lesters and an Agile wouldn't be quite as "toney" but I'll bet he could make one sound pretty damn good through his rig.
Ask youself... Is your guitar a "status symbol", "an investment" or a tool used to make music with?
+967 x infinity squared!
There's a lot of very mediocre bands out there that use very expensive Les Pauls and saturate the tone with so much distortion, it really doesn't matter what guitar they have. On the other hand, there are some very good players like Joe Bonamassa who definitely squeeze every ounce of tone out of his Lesters and an Agile wouldn't be quite as "toney" but I'll bet he could make one sound pretty damn good through his rig.
Ask youself... Is your guitar a "status symbol", "an investment" or a tool used to make music with?
Franknfilms
New member
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
I agree on the agile frets, although at this point with all my korean, indonesian guitars I pretty much accept a little fret work as a given. Still cheaper than spending thousands on a gibson (some of which still need fret work). Everyone has different priorities, I applaud those who saved and suffered to get a real deal lp. If you just have money growing out of your ass, well, less applause. I'm pretty happy with my cheap guitars because all of the fun is in the mods (pickup changes anyone?). Kind of like skipping to power chords instead of learning how to read music, sometimes it is fun to hot rod a cheap guitar vs. saving your whole life for a perfect one.
:lmao: Yep, this thread got out of hand too.
I agree on the agile frets, although at this point with all my korean, indonesian guitars I pretty much accept a little fret work as a given. Still cheaper than spending thousands on a gibson (some of which still need fret work). Everyone has different priorities, I applaud those who saved and suffered to get a real deal lp. If you just have money growing out of your ass, well, less applause. I'm pretty happy with my cheap guitars because all of the fun is in the mods (pickup changes anyone?). Kind of like skipping to power chords instead of learning how to read music, sometimes it is fun to hot rod a cheap guitar vs. saving your whole life for a perfect one.
JOLLY
Super Simonologist
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
It's a tool to make music of course. However, I enjoy playing things that I consider to be the best. Why should I settle for anything that isn't? I've had my fair share of mid/lower grade guitars/gear and still own some of them, but I'd much rather play professional equipment. That's just the way I am. I don't buy my guitars and equipment for anyone but myself. I don't give a damn about impressing anybody. I never have and I never will. I would have still bought and owned what I do now regardless of if I was on an internet guitar forum or not.
J
Jessie's ghost
Guest
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
Yup. Add to that the fundamental attribution error, and you get most of the catfights that we see here on the forum.
We as humans are very good at rationalizing our own choices in terms of our values, our priorities, our expectations. When we experience something that seems to undermine the validity of those choices, and we feel drawn to a nugget of truth in that new information, yet we don't really want to embrace it, that's cognitive dissonance.
We try to avoid cognitive dissonance by ignoring or discounting information, claims, testimonials, or personal experiences that tell us what we believe is wrong. Call it sour grapes, killing the messenger, or any of a variety of unpleasant forum behaviors that you might have seen here. Everybody does it. If you're wondering if I'm aware that I do it… yes, I've noticed.
In terms of what it means for this discussion, I think we guitarists are, in many cases, fiercely loyal to the choices we've made regarding these musical instruments. Maybe not to the brands, but to our choices and opinions regarding them.
A guy who just bought an Agile, Epiphone, or Squier probably doesn't want to be told that it's junk any more than a guy who just bought a Gibson, PRS, JEM, Custom Shop Fender, or handmade boutique that he wasted his money or that he's a mediocre player trying to hide behind an expensive guitar. In either case, some of these things may be true, but is it really our place to say, most of the time?
Maybe it galls you to hear someone say his $199 LTD is better than any Japanese ESP or whatever. It's annoying, but who really knows what goes through people's heads? Maybe he had a good experience playing it through a great amp one day and just bonded with it to the point of fanaticism. It's actually kind of cool, to be passionate about something like that.
Suppose you're sick of hearing for the billionth time how Jimbob Guitars are handmade in Sodomyville, PA from the wooden legs of Civil War vets and are the best guitars on the planet, period. Period. I… said… PERIOD!!!!! Nothing compares to the fret jobs, of which each fret is hand-milled from a solid block of titanium costing eighty thousand dollars at wholesale. Nothing compares. Nothing!!!!! . . . Are you really going to convince that guy of the error of his way? To him, you're just a plebe who can't even afford a Private Stock PRS or a 60's Strat.
The best revenge you can have on the haters is to find guitars that work for you, and play the **** out of them.
Yup. Add to that the fundamental attribution error, and you get most of the catfights that we see here on the forum.
We as humans are very good at rationalizing our own choices in terms of our values, our priorities, our expectations. When we experience something that seems to undermine the validity of those choices, and we feel drawn to a nugget of truth in that new information, yet we don't really want to embrace it, that's cognitive dissonance.
We try to avoid cognitive dissonance by ignoring or discounting information, claims, testimonials, or personal experiences that tell us what we believe is wrong. Call it sour grapes, killing the messenger, or any of a variety of unpleasant forum behaviors that you might have seen here. Everybody does it. If you're wondering if I'm aware that I do it… yes, I've noticed.
In terms of what it means for this discussion, I think we guitarists are, in many cases, fiercely loyal to the choices we've made regarding these musical instruments. Maybe not to the brands, but to our choices and opinions regarding them.
A guy who just bought an Agile, Epiphone, or Squier probably doesn't want to be told that it's junk any more than a guy who just bought a Gibson, PRS, JEM, Custom Shop Fender, or handmade boutique that he wasted his money or that he's a mediocre player trying to hide behind an expensive guitar. In either case, some of these things may be true, but is it really our place to say, most of the time?
Maybe it galls you to hear someone say his $199 LTD is better than any Japanese ESP or whatever. It's annoying, but who really knows what goes through people's heads? Maybe he had a good experience playing it through a great amp one day and just bonded with it to the point of fanaticism. It's actually kind of cool, to be passionate about something like that.
Suppose you're sick of hearing for the billionth time how Jimbob Guitars are handmade in Sodomyville, PA from the wooden legs of Civil War vets and are the best guitars on the planet, period. Period. I… said… PERIOD!!!!! Nothing compares to the fret jobs, of which each fret is hand-milled from a solid block of titanium costing eighty thousand dollars at wholesale. Nothing compares. Nothing!!!!! . . . Are you really going to convince that guy of the error of his way? To him, you're just a plebe who can't even afford a Private Stock PRS or a 60's Strat.
The best revenge you can have on the haters is to find guitars that work for you, and play the **** out of them.
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JOLLY
Super Simonologist
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
That's just from the first two pages of one thread. Now most of what was quoted there is opinion, but come on man, that's a joke. I invite anyone on this forum with an Agile to come to my house and compare their guitar to any of my Gibsons. I guarantee you that they will leave here thinking that their Agile feels like a toy.
The premise of this thread is not pointless when you have people that say things like this.
That's just from the first two pages of one thread. Now most of what was quoted there is opinion, but come on man, that's a joke. I invite anyone on this forum with an Agile to come to my house and compare their guitar to any of my Gibsons. I guarantee you that they will leave here thinking that their Agile feels like a toy.
sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
Ditto here.
Nah, you know what? I'm starting to think a lot of people just can't tell the difference.
Like the differences between a Gibson and an import knockoff are at a level of detail or perception beyond the point that some people discern or attach value.
In the case with those folks, I wish them all the best with their Agiles, etc. and don't hold myself superior to them. I have to spend more money to enjoy my instruments as much as they enjoy theirs - that's not exactly superiority in my book.
Ditto here.
Nah, you know what? I'm starting to think a lot of people just can't tell the difference.
Like the differences between a Gibson and an import knockoff are at a level of detail or perception beyond the point that some people discern or attach value.
In the case with those folks, I wish them all the best with their Agiles, etc. and don't hold myself superior to them. I have to spend more money to enjoy my instruments as much as they enjoy theirs - that's not exactly superiority in my book.
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IanBallard
New member
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
Let me clarify my statement. "Comparing" something does not equate to it being "better". I was simply stating that it would be more comparable with the mentioned mods. MetalManiac was but one person who owns both brands and his opinion is his own. Others have made a differing statement who also own both guitars. Automatically though, when MetalManiac says Agiles are vastly inferior, everybody jumps on the bandwagon like, "Ah, finally, somebody who gets it!" as if his opinion is sacrosanct or something. I'm going to have to attribute this nonsense reasoning to Jesse's observation that it's all "fundamental attribution error" and "cognitive dissonance" and most importantly OPINION which means about as much as the fart I just laid in the room. I've played plenty of Gibsons and played in dozens of bands with guys who owned really expensive ones and I played them all. Honestly, they're just guitars... even the 1960 Lester that I consider the best Gibby I've ever played and my dad's old SG too. Just. Guitars. In the hands of a master, they are great. In the hands of a hack, they are a no better than an Agile.
Let me clarify my statement. "Comparing" something does not equate to it being "better". I was simply stating that it would be more comparable with the mentioned mods. MetalManiac was but one person who owns both brands and his opinion is his own. Others have made a differing statement who also own both guitars. Automatically though, when MetalManiac says Agiles are vastly inferior, everybody jumps on the bandwagon like, "Ah, finally, somebody who gets it!" as if his opinion is sacrosanct or something. I'm going to have to attribute this nonsense reasoning to Jesse's observation that it's all "fundamental attribution error" and "cognitive dissonance" and most importantly OPINION which means about as much as the fart I just laid in the room. I've played plenty of Gibsons and played in dozens of bands with guys who owned really expensive ones and I played them all. Honestly, they're just guitars... even the 1960 Lester that I consider the best Gibby I've ever played and my dad's old SG too. Just. Guitars. In the hands of a master, they are great. In the hands of a hack, they are a no better than an Agile.
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Edgecrusher
New member
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
I agree I really think the differences are lost on some people.
To some all guitars might just be guitars. There are people out there who cant tell the difference between a slab of beef or filet mignon. Either they cant see it or to them it doesnt matter. Which is all good. They can play their guitars and be happy and ill play my guitars and be happy.
Though one thing that does bug me is its always implied around here that you have to be X good to deserve to play Y guitar. If i want to play smoke on the water on 1 string using my thumb on a PRS private reserve I can. The only thing that determines whether im worthy or not is my wallet.
I agree I really think the differences are lost on some people.
To some all guitars might just be guitars. There are people out there who cant tell the difference between a slab of beef or filet mignon. Either they cant see it or to them it doesnt matter. Which is all good. They can play their guitars and be happy and ill play my guitars and be happy.
Though one thing that does bug me is its always implied around here that you have to be X good to deserve to play Y guitar. If i want to play smoke on the water on 1 string using my thumb on a PRS private reserve I can. The only thing that determines whether im worthy or not is my wallet.
IanBallard
New member
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
Well, though I feel that a Gibson, Fender, PRS, Suhr, etc are "just guitars" by and large, if somebody gave me a $10,000 Custom Shop guitar from "Y" guitar company, I'd probably sell it because my family needs the money and I'm perfectly content with my homemade Junkcaster. I personally don't feel that I'm worthy to own such a guitar, even if I was "X" good. Heck, I played a gazillion gigs and made a living playing a mid-grade Tama kit for most of my musical career and never got ONE complaint about tone, in fact I got compliments on a regular basis because I squeezed every ounce of tone out of it I could. What bugs ME are rich kids who can barely play Smoke On The Water who's parents buy them $10,000 guitars.
Well, though I feel that a Gibson, Fender, PRS, Suhr, etc are "just guitars" by and large, if somebody gave me a $10,000 Custom Shop guitar from "Y" guitar company, I'd probably sell it because my family needs the money and I'm perfectly content with my homemade Junkcaster. I personally don't feel that I'm worthy to own such a guitar, even if I was "X" good. Heck, I played a gazillion gigs and made a living playing a mid-grade Tama kit for most of my musical career and never got ONE complaint about tone, in fact I got compliments on a regular basis because I squeezed every ounce of tone out of it I could. What bugs ME are rich kids who can barely play Smoke On The Water who's parents buy them $10,000 guitars.
sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
^ why does that bug you? You're perfectly happy with your homemade junkcaster.
Who cares what other people (or other people's parents) spend their money on?
^ why does that bug you? You're perfectly happy with your homemade junkcaster.
Who cares what other people (or other people's parents) spend their money on?
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
+1. I've seen great players that did wonderous things on entry-level guitars they borrowed for a few minutes. I'm sure Joe Bonamassa with an Agile could play circles around any one of us with a several thousand dollar Gibson LP. If I was Joe, I'd be playing Gibson's too. But it's a hobby, not a career to me, nor am I concerned about my image (being seen in public with an import guitar!). I've got a family and other priorities. The guitar isn't what makes Joe great, it's his head and fingers. Buy whatever you can afford, just don't brag if you have something expensive, and please, don't put someone down simply because their guitar cost less than yours. Music's about expressing emotions, and that's not something you can buy.
+1. I've seen great players that did wonderous things on entry-level guitars they borrowed for a few minutes. I'm sure Joe Bonamassa with an Agile could play circles around any one of us with a several thousand dollar Gibson LP. If I was Joe, I'd be playing Gibson's too. But it's a hobby, not a career to me, nor am I concerned about my image (being seen in public with an import guitar!). I've got a family and other priorities. The guitar isn't what makes Joe great, it's his head and fingers. Buy whatever you can afford, just don't brag if you have something expensive, and please, don't put someone down simply because their guitar cost less than yours. Music's about expressing emotions, and that's not something you can buy.
IanBallard
New member
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
Because I think the process of development is skewed, when you teach your kids that awesome gear comes first, playing comes with time. I feel it's the opposite. Make your Squier/Epi/Agile sound as good as it can and when you get to the point where you are playing gigs, playing in a studio, etc... then you graduate to pro instrument. I may have been playing a "mid-grade" kit with mods to my spec, I had the best cymbals I could find. But that was when I was gigging, giving lessons, cutting tracks in studios, etc when I bought my own stuff. Parents can do whateverthehell they want, but spoiling kids probably won't teach them responsibility and it certainly won't help them "pay their dues".
Because I think the process of development is skewed, when you teach your kids that awesome gear comes first, playing comes with time. I feel it's the opposite. Make your Squier/Epi/Agile sound as good as it can and when you get to the point where you are playing gigs, playing in a studio, etc... then you graduate to pro instrument. I may have been playing a "mid-grade" kit with mods to my spec, I had the best cymbals I could find. But that was when I was gigging, giving lessons, cutting tracks in studios, etc when I bought my own stuff. Parents can do whateverthehell they want, but spoiling kids probably won't teach them responsibility and it certainly won't help them "pay their dues".
IanBallard
New member
Re: NGD Agile 3100 Review..Agile Vs. Gibson Les Paul
Very well put. This kind of thread is just a "troll fest" which of course will invite all kinds of indignation on both sides. Instead, you should review an instrument on its own merit instead of putting an unfair comparison as the premise. I still firmly think that an Agile CAN compare with a production Gibson with key modifications. Just like Gibsons, we are dealing with WOOD which is imperfect and from one guitar to another, can vary quite a lot. You can pick up a Gibson that doesn't resonate, has rough frets and has mediocre-sounding pickups (I'm not a fan of modern Gibson humbuckers) and then pick up an Agile that happens to have more resonant wood, good frets and after putting some awesome pickups in it, a person might find the Agile more inviting. Like you said, there is a diminishing return with guitars, where the "little details" that make a guitar expensive don't justify the guitar being 10x more expensive than a decent Korean guitar. I could have put a real Fender on lay away instead of picking up a Squier that day, but I played almost every Strat in the store and this guitar RESONATED so much better... I could feel the vibrations through the whole thing better than even the CS Stats they had. This piece of Alder stood out to me and I knew that modding would make it pretty awesome. I don't regret my choice at all.
Very well put. This kind of thread is just a "troll fest" which of course will invite all kinds of indignation on both sides. Instead, you should review an instrument on its own merit instead of putting an unfair comparison as the premise. I still firmly think that an Agile CAN compare with a production Gibson with key modifications. Just like Gibsons, we are dealing with WOOD which is imperfect and from one guitar to another, can vary quite a lot. You can pick up a Gibson that doesn't resonate, has rough frets and has mediocre-sounding pickups (I'm not a fan of modern Gibson humbuckers) and then pick up an Agile that happens to have more resonant wood, good frets and after putting some awesome pickups in it, a person might find the Agile more inviting. Like you said, there is a diminishing return with guitars, where the "little details" that make a guitar expensive don't justify the guitar being 10x more expensive than a decent Korean guitar. I could have put a real Fender on lay away instead of picking up a Squier that day, but I played almost every Strat in the store and this guitar RESONATED so much better... I could feel the vibrations through the whole thing better than even the CS Stats they had. This piece of Alder stood out to me and I knew that modding would make it pretty awesome. I don't regret my choice at all.
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