Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

i mentioned feel in post 3 ;) by which i meant the tactile response of the amp. ive heard very good sounding ss and modeling amps and when i play them im left flaccid. if i was a different sort of player things might be different but the tone and feel of the amp is paramount to me playing my best.
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

EAProwlerB said:
I'm still curious where Duncan found the technical resources to develop an amp to complete with Quilter who has been working at this for 50 years.IMO it would be appropriate for Duncan in their release and product information to have some bit of background information relating to this.
Click to expand...

EAProwlerB said:
"Seymour Duncan produced a small line of guitar amplifiers during the 1980s and 1990s." You are correct duncan used to make amplifiers.
vs.
"Quilter LLC is an American manufacturer and globally recognized leader in the design and engineering of high performance audio products including power amplifiers.."
Not to be disruptive but I think my question is a valid one.
Click to expand...
At face value I don't think it is valid. Any literate EE or engineering department can put a decent power amp together with today's technology, having little or nothing to do with their prior experience on the subject. Between reverse engineering a successful predecessor, and reading chip manufacturers' recommended topologies, it's not that hard. You could go to Parts Express right now and put a decent pedal-sized power amp setup together for under $40. If this were 30 years ago it would be a different story but today it's just not that hard.

I'm not saying you have to like their amps or consider them worth the investment. You're free to think other brands offer more "bang for the buck" or whatever. But this concept of not having history in a product class, relating to the validity of a new offering, is confusing to me. Before the iPhone, Apple never made a phone. Nokia had been making them for decades. Tesla never made a car...until they did. Would we be more trusting of a Tesla if it came from Ford?
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

frankfalbo said:
At face value I don't think it is valid. Any literate EE or engineering department can put a decent power amp together with today's technology, having little or nothing to do with their prior experience on the subject. Between reverse engineering a successful predecessor, and reading chip manufacturers' recommended topologies, it's not that hard. You could go to Parts Express right now and put a decent pedal-sized power amp setup together for under $40. If this were 30 years ago it would be a different story but today it's just not that hard.

I'm not saying you have to like their amps or consider them worth the investment. You're free to think other brands offer more "bang for the buck" or whatever. But this concept of not having history in a product class, relating to the validity of a new offering, is confusing to me. Before the iPhone, Apple never made a phone. Nokia had been making them for decades. Tesla never made a car...until they did. Would we be more trusting of a Tesla if it came from Ford?
Click to expand...

You are correct. Duncan EE department could reverse engineer Quilter's design and come out with a very good class D amp.
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

yes hes a snob, but hes also right about most of that.
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

Alright we are at the end of a most interesting thread.
You either prefer tube amp tone or you find solid state/ hybrid preferable.
No sitting on the fence. There is a HUGE difference!
So it comes down to you are a "tube snob" or you are a solid state/hybrid/modeling curiosity.
Tube amps, without any doubt, have the superior tone. With the other things you can make all kinds of tones is true but none can sound as good as a tube amp.
Maybe someday, but not today.
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

EAProwlerB said:
You are correct. Duncan EE department could reverse engineer Quilter's design and come out with a very good class D amp.
Click to expand...

They don't need to reverse engineer a Quilter (or any other specific amp) to come up with a good design.
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

EAProwlerB said:
Alright we are at the end of a most interesting thread.
You either prefer tube amp tone or you find solid state/ hybrid preferable.
No sitting on the fence. There is a HUGE difference!
So it comes down to you are a "tube snob" or you are a solid state/hybrid/modeling curiosity.
Tube amps, without any doubt, have the superior tone. With the other things you can make all kinds of tones is true but none can sound as good as a tube amp.
Maybe someday, but not today.
Click to expand...

It's not your thread, Lee. You are not the arbiter of how much difference I think there is, or anyone else, or whether one is superior not. All amps whether tube or not have their intended uses, which often makes them not comparable - because they were created to solve different problems.
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

Oh well, looks like he has gotten himself banned now, so not that it matters, but I think he is also wrong in categorizing

"You either prefer tube amp tone or you find solid state/ hybrid preferable."

I do both. I run a rack stereo rig, and own both solid state and tube power amps. The tube power amp sounds better on its own, but I think I can get a solid state close with a little trickery. For live purposes I would much prefer it, as it eliminates the need for a shock rack and lightens the entire rig considerably.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

I suppose that we're fortunate that there are both.
I do have to say, for some of the more extreme underground metal genres, solid state is preferable.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

And for many cleans. In many of the "in-betweens" solid state can give a good enough tone that more people should consider it. For my material it would rarely be a go-to in the studio, but Michael Wagener got it to work excellently with White Lion, Extreme and Skid Row.
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

I have an Eleven Rack for the last 5-6 years and every guitar player (owning tube amps from Marshalls, Fenders, Mesa Boogies, etc) trying my patches (factory presets sound meh) were floored by the sound. They all said it was sounding as good as their tube amps. They even said my Eleven Rack sounded better direct to PA than their tube amps mic'd. Play Les Paul, Strat and Super Strat, from blues to classic rock to hard rock, from clean to high gain, they all said the feel and dynamic were identical to tube amps.

One thing for sure: I will never be able (and want) to play a modded 100w JCM800 cranked full volume at home or anywhere, it's too loud for my ears. And I will never have enough money to buy and maintain all those vintage tube amps, let alone carry them to gigs.

I agree it might not replace YOUR tube amps, but I have yet to find a tube amp (or SS amp) that will replace my Eleven Rack for home, recording and direct to PA gigs (all my gigs), consistent tone night after night, weighting less then 20 pounds with midi floorboard and 4u rack case, one trip from car to stage, 5 minutes setup and 5 minutes back to car at the end of the night. And it's also doing a killer Ampeg SVT tone, I play bass :-)

I'm not bashing tube amps (because I like them a lot), just saying there are good sounding alternatives.
I'm even considering a B rig for my living room: Peavey Bandit and Tech21 RK5, oops no tubes ;-)
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

Congrats on finding something that does what you need it to.
I've never actually played any of the profiling amps out there. There are a couple of local bands using them and they really do sound great. I've always wondered how the feel compares to traditional tube amp.
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

thats where i find them lacking. granted i dont own one but ive spent a fair amount of time playing on them and they just dont feel as good or react the way im used to with my tube amps. again, if i was a different sort of player then things might be different
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

I just recently acquired a Line 6 Spider Valve MkII. I'm impressed. I find that it definitely has that "feel" thing that Jeremy is talking about. I'm almost having a hard time getting used to playing straight into an amp without using any extra pedals (well, aside from the footboard that came with it).
 
Re: Tube Amp Snobbery Apology

Feel on the Eleven Rack (I will talk using my preset because it's different with factory presets) is the same as tube amps I've tried. Rollback the volume and it cleans up, play harder/softer and the amp react accordingly, etc. As an example, I have a JCM800 patch where on my Les Paul (dc=6.78k on both pickups) I can go from late '80 high gain on the bridge pickup (volume at 10) to almost clean on the neck pickup (volume at 3), playing softer on bridge has less gain, harder has more gain. Almost same perceived loudness.
I have a Matchless DC30 patch with a gorgeous clean tone, I activate a Tube Screamer and I get a nice Texas blues tone. Same as a real tube amp.
 
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