WTH Gibson?

[Mincer]

I think the hate comes from it transforming into a lifestyle brand more than a guitar company. I love my (Norlin-era) Gibson, and I am even technically a Gibson artist, but I get that they are going for a different market that is more than just guitar players at this point.

 

[GuitarDoc]

I do not understand this response.

Gibson had the more difficult through necks, angled headstock, recessed pickup cavities, backside electronic cavity, post mounted bridges, edged cable jack.

Fender style guitars are the easy to copy, flat neck, maple, bolt on neck, pickupguard moutned pickups and electronics, bridge screwed directly into the body.. Leo was trying to make the easiest guitar to build possible to pair with his amps.

Gibson were absolutely the harder style of guitar build to copy. -Everything about a Gibson was more difficult than most contemporaries, as they kept to more traditional luthier techniques requiring higher skill level.

I don't know how you can have a basic principle of luthier history so backwards.

I think you are missing something. I wasn't comparing Gibson to Fender. But you are absolutely wrong to say they are harder to copy than Fender! And it has nothing to do with "history" anyway. But I agree that thru necks are more difficult than bolt on...but that doesn't make them BETTER. A bolt-on is so much better for several reasons. I think that Leo got WAY more right in his design than did Gibson.
The angled headstock is MUCH easier to make than a Fender-style headstock, but Fender's design is definitely stronger/more durable!
I'm not familiar with any guitars that don't have recessed pickup cavities, ie where pickups are mounted on top of the guitars (except possibly with dog eared P-90s)?
As far as ease is concerned, there is no real difference between backside cavity or under-pickguard cavity.
Nor post mounted bridges vs screwed on bridges vs thru strings vs top load strings, etc. Fender's tremolo bridge is 10 times harder to build into a guitar than Gibson's post mounted bridge. I don't know how you can possibly say..."Gibson had the more difficult...post mounted bridges". That's just silly!! When did it ever become difficult to drill a couple holes?!

But here's where you're missing the point...it's not about how easy it is to make, it's about quality. You can look at types of bridges, tuners, strap buttons, cable jacks, etc if you want. Knock yourself out. But that makes no difference when talking about overall quality of an instrument. (Don't even get me started on Gibson's stupid binding nibs on the neck).

The LP, for example, is a simple solid slab of wood with a contoured top. Big deal. Not much more difficult than a Tele. But a Strat is WAY more difficult to make than a LP (with its trem, belly cut and forearm relief).

The LP IS a simple guitar. The Gibson LP IS mediocre. That makes them easy to copy. The Gibson LP is WAY overpriced. That makes them easy to copy AND make a good profit on it. I've made several LPs so I speak from experience. My custom guitars are 10 times more complicated than a Gibson LP. They are 10 times more difficult to make. And they are 10 times better in every respect (including quality). But nobody will ever copy my guitars because there is no profit in it.

 

[formula73]

I think you are missing something. I wasn't comparing Gibson to Fender. But you are absolutely wrong to say they are harder to copy than Fender! And it has nothing to do with "history" anyway. But I agree that thru necks are more difficult than bolt on...but that doesn't make them BETTER. A bolt-on is so much better for several reasons. I think that Leo got WAY more right in his design than did Gibson.
The angled headstock is MUCH easier to make than a Fender-style headstock, but Fender's design is definitely stronger/more durable!
I'm not familiar with any guitars that don't have recessed pickup cavities, ie where pickups are mounted on top of the guitars (except possibly with dog eared P-90s)?
As far as ease is concerned, there is no real difference between backside cavity or under-pickguard cavity.
Nor post mounted bridges vs screwed on bridges vs thru strings vs top load strings, etc. Fender's tremolo bridge is 10 times harder to build into a guitar than Gibson's post mounted bridge. I don't know how you can possibly say..."Gibson had the more difficult...post mounted bridges". That's just silly!! When did it ever become difficult to drill a couple holes?!

But here's where you're missing the point...it's not about how easy it is to make, it's about quality. You can look at types of bridges, tuners, strap buttons, cable jacks, etc if you want. Knock yourself out. But that makes no difference when talking about overall quality of an instrument. (Don't even get me started on Gibson's stupid binding nibs on the neck).

The LP, for example, is a simple solid slab of wood with a contoured top. Big deal. Not much more difficult than a Tele. But a Strat is WAY more difficult to make than a LP (with its trem, belly cut and forearm relief).

The LP IS a simple guitar. The Gibson LP IS mediocre. That makes them easy to copy. The Gibson LP is WAY overpriced. That makes them easy to copy AND make a good profit on it. I've made several LPs so I speak from experience. My custom guitars are 10 times more complicated than a Gibson LP. They are 10 times more difficult to make. And they are 10 times better in every respect (including quality). But nobody will ever copy my guitars because there is no profit in it.

…

*stifled giggle*

Bahahahaha

 

[Chris Pile]

Name me one time in history when mediocre was desirable, legendary, and the standard of the world...

 

[formula73]

Name me one time in history when mediocre was desirable, legendary, and the standard of the world...

We don’t agree much but I think I have to agree with the idea here. If they were such mediocre trash, they would have fallen by the wayside decades ago.

 

[NegativeEase]

…

*stifled giggle*

Bahahahaha

 

[GuitarStv]

The LP IS a simple guitar. The Gibson LP IS mediocre. That makes them easy to copy. The Gibson LP is WAY overpriced. That makes them easy to copy AND make a good profit on it. I've made several LPs so I speak from experience. My custom guitars are 10 times more complicated than a Gibson LP. They are 10 times more difficult to make. And they are 10 times better in every respect (including quality). But nobody will ever copy my guitars because there is no profit in it.

Can I see some pics? I've played some nice Gibsons, and 10x better in every respect would be cool to see.

 

[Securb]

Name me one time in history when mediocre was desirable, legendary, and the standard of the world...

.

 

[NegativeEase]

.

by what measure?

 

[Securb]

by what measure?

desirable - Everyone wanted a bug or a bug wagon for decades
legendary - everyone recognizes the car, it is a huge piece of pop culture
standard of the world - It is one of the if not the first "affordable" cars to be followed by everything from the Yugo to the Civic. Volkswagen also made rear engine, rear axle design a new standard. It wasn't the first but made the design popular.

mediocre - it is bare bones no luxury, just a point a to point b vehicle.

 

[NegativeEase]

desirable - Everyone wanted a bug or a bug wagon for decades
legendary - everyone recognizes the car, it is a huge piece of pop culture
standard of the world - It is one of the if not the first "affordable" cars to be followed by everything from the Yugo to the Civic. Volkswagen also made rear engine, rear axle design a new standard. It wasn't the first but made the design popular.

mediocre - it is bare bones no luxury, just a point a to point b vehicle.

It's weird, I wouldnt agree -it would be mediocre if it was designed tor trying to achieve something otherwise and wasn't in my mind,

It was a superb point to point no frills vehicle. a mediocre one would have been the specific Chevrolet and Renault cars that were designed to compete with the VW then

 

[Securb]

It's weird, I wouldnt agree -it would be mediocre if it was designed tor trying to achieve something otherwise and wasn't in my mind,

It was a superb point to point no frills vehicle. a mediocre one would have been the specific Chevrolet and Renault cars that were designed to compete with the VW then

Many products are produced of lower quality for mainly financial reasons that become popular. Modular homes are a great example, Ked's sneakers, Sears Toughskin Jeans, Supercuts, and of course McDonald's.

me·di·o·cre /ˌmēdēˈōkər/
adjective
of only moderate quality; not very good.
"a mediocre actor"
Similar: ordinary, common, commonplace, average, middle-of-the-road

 

[NegativeEase]

Many products are produced of lower quality for mainly financial reasons that become popular. Modular homes are a great example, Ked's sneakers, Sears Toughskin Jeans, Supercuts, and of course McDonald's.

How dare you bring Toughskins into this

 

[Chris Pile]

desirable - Everyone wanted a bug or a bug wagon for decades
legendary - everyone recognizes the car, it is a huge piece of pop culture
standard of the world - It is one of the if not the first "affordable" cars to be followed by everything from the Yugo to the Civic. Volkswagen also made rear engine, rear axle design a new standard. It wasn't the first but made the design popular.

You hit the first two points, but it is not (and never was) the standard of the world. It was however a known quantity - same as McDonalds.

Also, if you regard the entirety of auto history, there are earlier examples of cheap and rugged (remember - Jeeps were mil spec to begin with), and affordable stuff like Studebakers, Henry J's, American Bantam, and others would claim that crown long before VW.

Finally, rear engine/rear axle was around before the First World War. Karl Benz and Henry Ford designs leap to mind.

 

[NegativeEase]

You hit the first two points, but it is not (and never was) the standard of the world. It was however a known quantity - same as McDonalds.

Also, if you regard the entirety of auto history, there are earlier examples of cheap and rugged (remember - Jeeps were mil spec to begin with), and affordable stuff like Studebakers, Henry J's, American Bantam, and others would claim that crown long before VW.

Finally, rear engine/rear axle was around before the First World War. Karl Benz and Henry Ford designs leap to mind.

My point is I would agree if Securb said the VW Beetle is a mediocre "performance car" or mediocre "long trip car" some value system that you can relate the judgment to,

But as for what it was designed for, its literally one on the greatest cars ever built.

But if I want to a performance or luxury car or carry loads etc etc it's not even mediocre

A Dremel is a mediocre Hedge trimmer

 

[Demanic]

The real identity of Gibson is "mediocre guitar at an extraordinarily inflated price". They are copied so much because it is easy to...easy to copy a simple guitar with mediocre quality at a cheaper price. They would never get copied if Gibsons were priced at what they were worth. There would be no profit in it.

Most people don't understand what makes a truly great quality guitar so they rely on the brand recognition or reputation. People are generally too lazy to try out the guitars they plan on buying so they go with the name..."can't go wrong getting the best (?)". I truly believe that if Gibson started selling their guitars under a different name, like "Oligo Guitars", they would be out of business within 3 months. They wouldn't have the brand recognition, and people would see that there are much better guitars available for way lower prices.

This is what keeps Gibson in business..."G-I-B-S-O-N".
It is NOT their guitars!

That's true about many products.
Caveat emptor.

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[Demanic]

Name me one time in history when mediocre was desirable, legendary, and the standard of the world...

Have you taken a good look around at the world lately?

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[Demanic]

My point is I would agree if Securb said the VW Beetle is a mediocre "performance car" or mediocre "long trip car" some value system that you can relate the judgment to,

But as for what it was designed for, its literally one on the greatest cars ever built.

But if I want to a performance or luxury car or carry loads etc etc it's not even mediocre

A Dremel is a mediocre Hedge trimmer

Who was it again that created VW?

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[NegativeEase]

Who was it again that created VW?

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Why is this relevant?, and by the way the VW company was founded by the British Government.

 

[treyhaislip]

All the Gibson haters can suck it.
Their opinions are rooted in fantasy, jealousy, and lies.
Yes, Gibson should up its own game, but they are NOT the crap that these knotheads try to represent them to be.
The haters would have us think Gibson is Hondo.
Just not true.

My opinion is definitely not rooted in fantasy, jealousy nor lies. Gibson price vs quality is not something that haters just made up because they are jealous of those who can afford a Gibson.

I switched from Gibson Acoustics (had a J45 and an AJ both in both Gibsons, for indoor gigs & recording, and Epiphone Masterbilts for outdoor gigs/camping trips) to middle/high-end Martin and Taylors as well as Eastman--very noticeable quality differences.I still think Gibson makes killer acoustics--the J45, SJ, AJ, Hummingbird, etc. are all killer sounding instruments. But for the price, the finish, feel and playability doesn't justify their price whereas my Martin's and Taylors do as well as the Eastmans I've owned. I would regularly pick my Eastman E10SS over the J45--the quality was better on the Eastman where if you didn't look at the headstock, you would have thought the Eastman was the actual J45.

For electrics, I can build/assemble (with me doing all of the work including painting/staining) a killer guitar with better quality and price than anything Gibson. The last Gibson Les Paul I owned sounded great but was super heavy and had constant trouble staying in tune (even after forking over money to a luthier to try and fix it when I couldn't.) I switched to partcaster type builds and have a better playing & sounding guitars that are very light plus custom to whatever I want. Haven't owned a name brand electric since.

I'm not saying Gibson is Hondo--have never said they were flat out trash (and to be fair, for the price, some of those Hondos were decent guitars.) And I really like what Epiphone has been putting out--decent price and good quality. But to say that Gibson is perfect and their quality is the best and they make the best guitars and are priced fairly...that is fantasy land.