Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

The guy who said that personal guitars "could" be confiscated is off base, and the statement was inflamatory at best.
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

guitarrob said:
If the work is not done there then this wood is not legal to export or something along those lines. So basically, to use this wood for their fretboards they have to have the work done over in India. Which is difficult if you want to have a Made in the USA sticker on the guitar.
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They could have the bodies made in Africa, the hardware from Canada, fretboards from India, pickups from USA and strings from Mexico. If all of those pieces are put together to make a final product anywhere in the USA, they can put "Made in USA" on it.

It's the country of final assembly that gets the "Made in..." label on the product.
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

ErikH said:
They could have the bodies made in Africa, the hardware from Canada, fretboards from India, pickups from USA and strings from Mexico. If all of those pieces are put together to make a final product anywhere in the USA, they can put "Made in USA" on it.

It's the country of final assembly that gets the "Made in..." label on the product.
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No, you are thinking of "Assembled in the USA".

The Made in USA mark is a country of origin label indicating the product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The label is regulated by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).
Rough products can coe from other countries but most of the work has to be done in the USA.

If is was that easy, all these overseas companies, would just aset up a shop here, import all components here, assemble guitars just to slap a "Made in the USA" sticker on them and fetch a premium.
 
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Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

MAN, what a great time to play a guitar with an ash body and a maple board.:burnout:
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

guitarrob said:
No, you are thinking of "Assembled in the USA".

The Made in USA mark is a country of origin label indicating the product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The label is regulated by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).
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Duh, yeah. You're right. I looked up the regulations.

But then again, you run in to the country of origin of all the wood (India for the rosewood and ebony, Africa for the mahogany). I wonder of the bridges, tuners and tailpieces are made in Japan or elsewhere. The pickups are USA made. So, in reality, shouldn't they be labelled, "Made in USA with foreign parts"? Much like American automobiles are these days.

Just a curious thought.
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

ErikH said:
Duh, yeah. You're right. I looked up the regulations.

But then again, you run in to the country of origin of all the wood (India for the rosewood and ebony, Africa for the mahogany). I wonder of the bridges, tuners and tailpieces are made in Japan or elsewhere. The pickups are USA made. So, in reality, shouldn't they be labelled, "Made in USA with foreign parts"? Much like American automobiles are these days.

Just a curious thought.
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Yeah but those are just unfinished peices of components.
Made in the USA means that most of the product were produced in the USA. The base wood/components can be from another coutry but all the milling, finishing..routing etc - all the building is all done here so the product is essentially made here.
 
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Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

guitarrob said:
Yeah but those are just unfinished peices of components.
Made in the USA means that most of the product were produced in the USA. The base wood/components can be from another coutry but all the milling, finishing..routing etc - all the building is all done here so the product is essentially made here.
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Got it. It's the "raw, unfinished" versus "ready for assembly" designation then, just to make it simple for everyone to understand.

I don't know why, but I always got all that messed up...lol.
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

ErikH said:
Got it. It's the "raw, unfinished" versus "ready for assembly" designation then, just to make it simple for everyone to understand.

I don't know why, but I always got all that messed up...lol.
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Exactly.
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

formula73 said:
Damn guys; I started the post with 'lol'. Of course I'm not serious.
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Man in armed standoff wth police!

A distraught man started hitting police and swiping at them with his guitar case after they attempted to confiscate this guitar case at the airport. He is one of many being rounded up as part of a multi million dollar sting operation to prevent the highly lucritive underground trade of exotic Indian plant materials.

These illicit "blanks" as the street users call them originate in the back woods of India and madagaskar and are highly sought after in the underground music scene for their euphoric producing qualities when used.

An insider source stated once he started using these illicit plant products he could not stop and would have intense euphoric sensation during their use and these feeling would linger for many days.
After that point, this poor addict would need to sit down "Plug in", "crank it Up" and "Rock out" as the users say in these close circles. Over and over this circle goes until the user is dependant on these blanks for their day to day enjoyment.

The man at the airport could be heard shouting "You'll never take us alive coppers!" and fighting with the police.

One spokesmen for the law enforcment agencies stated this is a much larger problem then many are aware of and these illicit "blanks" are finding their way to people all over and in many age groups from the youngster in his bedroom to the music teacher in your local school.
Nobody is safe from this traps and people become instantly addicted to their effects once used.
The tenticals of this issue go deep and far into our very culture. These people must be stopped to protect our children and our very way of life."
Stay tuned for our insider expose on the effects of prolonged usage.
 
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Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

Zerberus said:
Somewhat curious, yes.

However, statistically most US citizens can´t even name all 50 states, many don´t even know which ones they share borders with... so I´m not sure how accurate their geographic knowledge of places 15000 miles away should be....

Not saying it´s the case, but seems plausible. ;)
Click to expand...

The earths circumference is around 24,900.

Your point is well taken.
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

guitarrob said:
Man in armed standoff wth police!

A distraught man started hitting police and swiping at them with his guitar case after they attempted to confiscate this guitar case at the airport. He is one of many being rounded up as part of a multi million dollar sting operation to prevent the highly lucritive underground trade of exotic Indian plant materials.

These illicit "blanks" as the street users call them originate in the back woods of India and madagaskar and are highly sought after in the underground music scene for their euphoric producing qualities when used.

An insider source stated once he started using these illicit plant products he could not stop and would have intense euphoric sensation during their use and these feeling would linger for many days.
After that point, this poor addict would need to sit down "Plug in", "crank it Up" and "Rock out" as the users say in these close circles.

The man at the airport could be heard shouting "You'll never take us alive coppers!" and fighting with the police.

One spokesmen for the law enforcment agencies stated this is a much larger problem then many are aware of and these illicit "blanks" are finding their way to people all over and in many age groups from the youngster in his bedroom to the music teacher in your local school.
Nobody is safe from this traps and people become instantly addicted to their effects once used.
The tenticals of this issue go deep and far into our very culture. These people must be stopped to protect our children and our very way of life."
Stay tuned for our insider expose on the effects of prolonged usage.
Click to expand...

*eyes roll back in ecstasy from teh omgtoanz*
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

formula73 said:
Damn guys; I started the post with 'lol'. Of course I'm not serious.
Click to expand...

Lol wasn't focussed on you but on an "expert" in the news article I read who stated that guitarists could face confiscation of their guitars if they couldn't produce paperwork that stated where the wood in the guitar was from.
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

Yeah...I doubt that would happen, but the mere fact that it could be interpreted that way scares me a little bit.
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

I think the entire thing is blow out of proportion though....going into Gibson with armed agents for a import policy violation? Talk about grabbing for headlines!

I could see them possibly trying to make a point about guitars that were sent out of the company during this time when they say they were using this illegal wood. Prior to that though, they have no cause for anything.
If they are shutting them down before they have actually proven they have did anything and that is just wrong on so many levels. Isn't this one of those situation that
the US constitution is supposed to guard against?
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

guitarrob said:
I think the entire thing is blow out of proportion though....going into Gibson with armed agents for a import policy violation? Talk about grabbing for headlines!

I could see them possibly trying to make a point about guitars that were sent out of the company during this time when they say they were using this illegal wood. Prior to that though, they have no cause for anything.
If they are shutting them down before they have actually proven they have did anything and that is just wrong on so many levels. Isn't this one of those situation that
the US constitution is supposed to guard against?
Click to expand...

:cool2:

Amerika
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

As I understand these issues (use of banned materials like ivory and whatnot) the law can (by law) only cover those materials and items made and/or harvested after the ban, and the ban cannot be retroactive (i.e. you can't say the law signed in 1980 governing Brazilian rosewood and Honduran mahogany applies to 1979 and further back).

Hence, you cannot be penalized for being in possession of anything made of elephant tusk before the ban was implemented, nor can you lose your 1959 Les Paul made of Brazilian rosewood and Honduran mahogany.


On a related note, a friend in New Jersey on another forum once had a Jackson he bought from another friend in California held at the UPS depot in Kentucky while Fish & Game made him get the info from Jackson as to what specific species of mother of pearl was used on the guitar. They told him if he could not provide the info, they would confiscate and destroy the guitar!


Now, the issue I have with this is that everyone seems to be ok with these Environmental Laws, saying "well, it's a law and you have to abide by it".

When they pass the law that says you have no right to free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, or the right to petition the government for a redress of grievences, will you still say "well, it's the law, so I guess it's ok"?

The United States is a Government Of The People, For The People, and By The People. You and me and any other Regular American are guaranteed the Right to run for political office, regardless of financial status, race, religion, or any other factor within reasonable limits that insure against allegiance to foreign nations - Kim Jong Il is disqualified, as is Cat Stephens.
Our Government cannot simply pass these laws and destroy businesses based on a vocal minority's Chicken Little paranoia.


As well, who says these forests have not already been harvested? Why waste the wood if it's not growing in the form of a tree? Just to say "so there!" and "take that!"?
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

They can still make laws that make future imports illegal. Unfortunately that would also cover getting out and back into the country with the same instrument.
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

What's not so cool about this thread is that none of us here really knows what's going on, or how the case is being handled . . . but many have already cast judgements. (Based on political stance, environmental stance, love/dislike of a giant corporation? Who knows.) If Gibson has been doing something bad, they're going to suffer. Choose to break the law, or involve yourself with criminals and that's the price that you'll pay. If the FBI has overstepped their bounds then I suspect that Gibson's lawyers will get more than fair compensation for the problems caused.

The amount of distrust and fear that Americans have for the government that they elect democratically every few years is comical. It's a democracy. Why all the belly achin' and "end of the US as we know it" hyperbole? If America really doesn't like someone in office, they'll be voted out in a few years.

The idea that it destroys businesses to use legal means for constructing guitars is silly when you consider that Fender, Jackson/Charvel, Ibanez, Martin, Yamaha, and PRS all seem to be doing fine under the same restrictions. It would be a very anti-capitalist and unfair policy to give one company a manufacturing advantage by not enforcing the rules as some are suggesting here.

My 2 cents.
 
Re: Buy a Gibson, become a criminal: only in America...

Yes, they can certainly make laws that govern future imports, but my point was directed mostly to address the question of "some guy getting his vintage pre-ban LP confiscated".

However, if you bought a Les Paul with CTS pots and left New York on Monday and went to London, and a law was passed banning the use of CTS pots on the following Wednesday, then you came back that Friday, all you'd have to do is prove you bought it before the ban was in place.
Hopefully you kept the receipt for a USA Les Paul.
Even then, the serial number would prove it was made before the ban, and thus the law cannot touch it.
 
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