Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

[Securb]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

Just because they have a circuit board doesn't mean these are digital.

Exactly. There is no embedded software in these pickups so there is nothing that could be manipulated via USB no more than you could with a EMG. That being said these are not active pickups.

 

[dominus]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

Wait, what? You mean that's not Chewie:?::scratchch

I thought it was Harry Henderson.

 

[Big Flannel]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

Calm down, guys. DreX is only acting like this because of those UIG jerks.

Everything will be ok.

 

[DreX]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

Just because they have a circuit board doesn't mean these are digital.

A version 2 could have a digital component even if the current version doesn't.

According to this article about the Fluence:

http://www.premierguitar.com/articl...an-rethinks-the-electric-guitar-pickup?page=2

Simply positioning magnets in the center of those printed circuit racetracks yields a perfectly flat-sounding pickup. That’s not a tone most players seek, but it’s a perfect platform for replicating the character of different pickups.

So it sounds like the hardware puts out a flat response, and all the pickup's character is imparted through EQ'ing on the circuit board, so that being the case, I can't imagine why you'd be limited to just two EQ profiles. Making that switchable through digital means doesn't seem like it would be especially difficult.

Sounds like you want a Variax.

The Variax is a whole guitar, and it's signal is digitally processed IIRC. The Fluences are pickups that can go in any single coil or humbucker ready guitar.

 

[Securb]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

A version 2 could have a digital component even if the current version doesn't.

What you are not getting is the beauty of these pickups is they are not digital. There is no modeling involved with the electronics. They are magnetic pickups. If you read anything Fishman has put out about the Fluence the one thing they keep trying to get across is there is no processing being done in the electronics. The battery is only onboard to power the coils.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

I want some flatulence pickups

 

[DreX]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

What you are not getting is the beauty of these pickups is they are not digital. There is no modeling involved with the electronics. They are magnetic pickups. If you read anything Fishman has put out about the Fluence the one thing they keep trying to get across is there is no processing being done in the electronics. The battery is only onboard to power the coils.

1) "a digital component" does not necessarily mean digital processing. There is a lot of audio equipment in existence that contain both digital and analogue components.

2) They should still be able to offer more than two sounds regardless. Retaining "the beauty of these pickups is they are not digital" should not also mean you only get two voicing.

 

[dominus]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

1) "a digital component" does not necessarily mean digital processing. There is a lot of audio equipment in existence that contain both digital and analogue components.

2) They should still be able to offer more than two sounds regardless. Retaining "the beauty of these pickups is they are not digital" should not also mean you only get two voicing.

If you're EQing digitally, you're processing digitally. The end.

and before you ask, I actually *like* modelling amps, plugins, etc. I'm not afraid of digital emulations, as long as they're done right. Perhaps Fishman can do it correctly, but that *would* make them digital.

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

I thought it was Harry Henderson.

I was getting a doubledore vibe off it.

 

[DreX]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

If you're EQing digitally, you're processing digitally. The end.

and before you ask, I actually *like* modelling amps, plugins, etc. I'm not afraid of digital emulations, as long as they're done right. Perhaps Fishman can do it correctly, but that *would* make them digital.

The digital aspect is beside the point, it would merely facilitate the potential for USB/software involvement. The advent of digital modelers has not created an expectation for all things digital, people don't really care how these things work, but it has created an appetite for variety.

Answer me this, if you can, is the analogue EQ circuitry so bulky that they can only cram two voicings onto a board? With the surface mount caps and resistors available today, I find it hard to believe it necessarily take up that much space.

I recently bought one of these for experimentation http://www.ebay.com/itm/380606485633?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 it's a 1 pole/12 way dial. This should be able to permit for a knob that would allow selecting between 12 voicing so long as the Fluence circuitry could fit that many options.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

The battery is only onboard to power the coils.

Actually that's not what we're saying. The coils do not use power. It is like "passive coils into voicing circuit" True, they're not what constitutes a typical "active pickup" it is still coils, magnet, and electronics.

1)They should still be able to offer more than two sounds regardless. Retaining "the beauty of these pickups is they are not digital" should not also mean you only get two voicing.

First let me say, the way these pickups sound and feel...They'd be worth it to me if there were only one voice per pickup. It's something that has to be heard and felt, something Securb has done in person. I'm sure we'd all like one pickup that accurately produced every voice from the beginning of time. But as of today, two distinct voices represents a 100% increase in the number of voices available in most other pickups! LOL And you're right. They're truly different voices. They have to share the same magnetic circuit though. So in addition to the voice, the response is affected by the magnetic circuit quite a bit.

Honestly though, I appreciate your enthusiasm and your acknowledgement that you were not a fly on the wall while these were being developed. There is so much you can't possibly be aware of. You can't know if we "should be able to offer this, or that, or whatever. It's kind of a waste of time to talk about how much circuitry can fit where, you don't understand anything about what's under the hood, how much current draw plays into it, etc. (there's a lot you can do if you want crap headroom and short battery life) All I can say is, sit back, relax, and watch over the next several years, it's going to be interesting. If you want a set of these, buy some. If not, wait around, maybe you'll like something we do in the future.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

1) "a digital component" does not necessarily mean digital processing. There is a lot of audio equipment in existence that contain both digital and analogue components.

I disagree. List me one or more actual physical digital component.
" Digital components " do not exist as a physical item, with a couple of exceptions that are nothing to do with anything here.
Digital processing is what is being referred to when " digital " is used, in 99.9% of cases.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

I get what he's saying, for example the Shape Shifter tremolo pedal had a digital micro controller that controlled analog tremolo. It's possible to create circuits that have digital control over analog components. It doesn't have any bearing on the Fluence pickups though. The analog circuits there are quite masterful, not the same as volume fluctuations.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

I get what he's saying, for example the Shape Shifter tremolo pedal had a digital micro controller that controlled analog tremolo. It's possible to create circuits that have digital control over analog components. It doesn't have any bearing on the Fluence pickups though. The analog circuits there are quite masterful.

Your digital controller is still working on an analog hardware level. All digital devices/processors do. The voltage components moving around in them that represent 1's and 0's are analog voltages. Even if it's just controlling, it's still a form of digital processing.

Your right , it has nothing to do with the " Fluences ".

 

[DreX]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

I disagree. List me one actual physical digital component.
" Digital components " do not exist as a physical item, with a couple of exceptions that are nothing to do with anything here.
Digital processing is what is being referred to when " digital " is used, in 99.9% of cases.

Actually dominus was the first here to bring in the word "digital", so you should debate the implied meaning with him, if you're so inclined. I couldn't care less if it were digital at all, I just want more than two voicings, because, frankly, I feel I get that and more via spin-a-split and spin-a-tap, or series / parallel already. Are they completely ideal? No, but the don't take batteries either.

First let me say, the way these pickups sound and feel...They'd be worth it to me if there were only one voice per pickup. It's something that has to be heard and felt, something Securb has done in person.

That could be said about a lot of pickups, though. I'm sure the Fluence sound great, because TBH I think most pickups sound great. It's not about better pickup/worse pickup, it really is all about the differences - which is why I prize variety.

I'm sure we'd all like one pickup that accurately produced every voice from the beginning of time. But as of today, two distinct voices represents a 100% increase in the number of voices available in most other pickups!

I don't expect a product that emulates every pickup since the beginning of time. You're going hyperbole on me.

There is so much you can't possibly be aware of. You can't know if we "should be able to offer this, or that, or whatever. It's kind of a waste of time to talk about how much circuitry can fit where, you don't understand anything about what's under the hood, how much current draw plays into it, etc. (there's a lot you can do if you want crap headroom and short battery life) All I can say is, sit back, relax,...

So the Strat version has a vintage voicing and a Texas hot voicing, do you mean to tell me that something in between those two, something sub-vintage, or a voicing a pinch hotter than Texas Hot would destroy the battery life? If so, it would be awesome if you'd be willing to explain why that would be rather than say "you don't understand anything about what's under the hood." That's quite patronizing.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

Drex:Actually dominus was the first here to bring in the word "digital", so you should debate the implied meaning with him, if you're so inclined.
I couldn't care less if it were digital at all, I just want more than two voicings, because, frankly, I feel I get that and more via spin-a-split and spin-a-tap, or series / parallel already. Are they completely ideal? No, but the don't take batteries either.

Your suggestion of a USB hookup was , in essence. You made this statement not him.

1) "a digital component" does not necessarily mean digital processing. There is a lot of audio equipment in existence that contain both digital and analogue components.

What doesn't take batteries.?

Once again you can't accept a product for what it is. Nearly everything you comment on is how you'd want it changed.
Have you re-invented the wheel lately ?

 

[DreX]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

Your suggestion of a USB hookup was , in essence. You made this statement not him.

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...man-Fluence)&p=3706837&viewfull=1#post3706837

Just refer to that, he's picking up what I'm putting down. I'm not asking for volume fluctuations though, just some sort of external manipulation of the analogue circuitry through whatever means the Fishman engineers could manage. If at any point it were to require a DAC, I'd say no thanks. That's when it would get into Variax territory.

What doesn't take batteries.?
Once again you can't accept a product for what it is. Nearly everything you comment on is how you'd want it changed.
Have you re-invented the wheel lately ?

I'm fine with batteries if I get more than two voicings. It's just not worth it me, personally.

 

[ExplorersRock]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

I'm fine with batteries if I get more than two voicings. It's just not worth it me, personally.

Ok... Forgive, me but I don't understand why you consider two voicings not worth it. EMGs have one voicing, as do Livewires, Blackouts, and all other active pickups. They use batteries. I guess none of those pickups are worth it either? Fishman is giving you two voicings and you can tap the pickups which most active pickups don't do (some do, just not many). That seems like a lot of versatility to me, and certainly much more than other active pickups offer. Why is that not good enough?

 

[DreX]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

Ok... Forgive, me but I don't understand why you consider two voicings not worth it. EMGs have one voicing, as do Livewires, Blackouts, and all other active pickups. They use batteries. I guess none of those pickups are worth it either? Fishman is giving you two voicings and you can tap the pickups which most active pickups don't do (some do, just not many). That seems like a lot of versatility to me, and certainly much more than other active pickups offer. Why is that not good enough?

I'm a Strat guy first, so I'm only really interested in the single coil model. The Fluence Modern Humbucker looks like an EMG, and has the product description of an EMG, but with two voicings, so if you're in the market for an EMG, the Fluence makes sense as a purchase option.

The Fishman Fluence single coil doesn't make that same promise, though. It's supposed to emulate the tone of vintage and overwound passives, and to some people, it might be worth the trouble to deal with batteries or recharging packs for two voicings in one guitar, but it's definitely not a slam dunk. With stacked humbuckers you get both noise free operation and dual voicings. With single coil sized humbuckers you get two sounds that are both noise free by way of series /parallel, and while you can make the point that they're not as focused in their alternative voicings as the Fluence, they also don't require batteries, so it's a 50/50 proposition. If they added even one more voicing to the Fluence, that would put it a tiny bit ahead of stacked and SC sized HB's. If they could get ten voicings in there, offering the equivalent of an entire product line worth of passive single coil in a single active product, it would be a clear victory for the Fluence and a no brainer for any consumer who values variety in tone in a single guitar.

 

[Securb]

Re: Incoming New Pickup Day (Fishman Fluence)

The Fishman Fluence single coil doesn't make that same promise, though. It's supposed to emulate the tone of vintage and overwound passives, and to some people, it might be worth the trouble to deal with batteries or recharging packs for two voicings in one guitar, but it's definitely not a slam dunk.

The clarity and response alone these pickups have is a slamdunk. Having actually played these pickups I can say even if they had one voice they would be fantastic. There is a lot more going on with the Fluence product than the ability to have two voices. I have batteries in my Parker, Ibanez and my Ovation and do not find it a chore to swap them out once a year or so. Like I said earlier you have no first hand knowledge of the product this might be a better time to ask questions than to pontificate on what Fishman didn't do correctly.