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  • #91
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    Every sales brochure should have a picture of an unfinished guitar next to the completed instruments. That way people still won’t know what they’re getting, but they’ll know what it looks like.
    What’s funnier than putting up roadblocks to stop the advance of someone who’s running away from you at four hundred miles an hour?

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Ibanez wood fraud

      Originally posted by Erlend_G View Post
      Hey guys,

      I think we gotta be gentle here,

      OP's got a point.

      If you're paying for an instrument, where the manufacturer states it's made out of "Wood A",
      but you find out, that it's made out of "Wood B"- then yes, I'd state that the manufacturer is lieing,
      and fooling their customers... :o

      -Erl
      You can't reliably make a state of the art musical instrument of this kind for $300 without ripping off your employees and your customers. Advertising is often quite disgusting in practice and while I couldn't blame a kid for being naive but adults are expected to do their due diligence and if not, it's by their own choice. Cheap guitars are being made of cheap materials, corners are cut, got promised champagne on a beer budget, surprised it wasn't quite delivered, I beg your pardon?


      Originally posted by TMD View Post
      Every sales brochure should have a picture of an unfinished guitar next to the completed instruments. That way people still won’t know what they’re getting, but they’ll know what it looks like.
      They should photograph each and every one? Or just one, specially prepared to look best? How's that for a choice?
      Last edited by vinta9e; 06-22-2020, 02:32 PM.

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Ibanez wood fraud

        ^^ I still think it's bad practice, to advertise something for something it's not.

        Regardless of it's a "cheap guitar" or a high-end Gibson.
        If somethings important- send a PM. I might be offline for long periods. Rock on!!!

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: Ibanez wood fraud

          Originally posted by WDeeGee View Post
          OP here, two things:

          1) Not wholly unrelated: the bass sounded thin, and had weak sustain. Because the 2017 Ibz catalogue claimed the bass was made of mahogany, but the wood wasn't reddish (as I had understood mahogany to be), I assumed the bad sound was because they used an inferior wood, thus conning their customer (we are all customers here). Turns out adjusting the pickup height solved the tone/sustain problem really well. If the tone was good to begin with, I probably wouldn't have made such a big fuss about it.

          2) Yes, I opted to use the strongest possible term ("fraud") in the title to get attention. Apparently it worked and I found the discussion very worthwhile. Thank you. I learned that some mahogany is white, that "mahogany" isn't strictly "mahogany", and so on. Also learned that adjusting pickup height does so very much for a bass (I'm primarily a guitar player), or maybe it's characteristic of the Powerspan pups to be so sensitive to pup height?

          I agree that it is logical guitar manufacturers would lump similar wood types together under the same banner if that is what suppliers do too (it would be cumbersome, expensive and near impossible for manufacturers to figure out what kind of tree each batch really is). As said, if they really wanted only one exact type of wood, they may run out of supply. That is not feasable for mass produced budget guitars. Given how players are focused on tonewood names (mahogany, maple..) specifying all of this in the catalogues would be confusing and probably offputting. Ultimately, if it sounds good and plays well, who cares what it's made of? I don't. Quite happy with what the bass is for its price, tbh.

          Thanks for chippin' in, y'all.
          In his own post
          Point #2
          He admits to trolling
          EHD
          Just here surfing Guitar Pron
          RG2EX1 w/ SD hot-rodded pickups / RG4EXFM1 w/ Carvin S22j/b + FVN middle
          SR500 / Martin 000CE-1/Epiphone Hummingbird
          Epiphone Florentine with OEM Probuckers
          Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
          Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
          Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
          GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Ibanez wood fraud

            Originally posted by vinta9e View Post
            They should photograph each and every one? Or just one, specially prepared to look best? How's that for a choice?
            Just one. Prep it however they want, but at least everyone will know it’s not real mahogany.
            What’s funnier than putting up roadblocks to stop the advance of someone who’s running away from you at four hundred miles an hour?

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Ibanez wood fraud

              Maybe just use the word Mahogany with quotes like this

              "Mahogany"
              EHD
              Just here surfing Guitar Pron
              RG2EX1 w/ SD hot-rodded pickups / RG4EXFM1 w/ Carvin S22j/b + FVN middle
              SR500 / Martin 000CE-1/Epiphone Hummingbird
              Epiphone Florentine with OEM Probuckers
              Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
              Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
              Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
              GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Ibanez wood fraud

                This is 10 years old so I'm sure there are more out there now.


                https://www.woodworkerssource.com/bl...ions/mahogany/

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Ibanez wood fraud

                  Dear Watson, I have found no meaningful difference between furniture grade "mahogany" and pallet grade "poplar" or whatever species it might actually be or pose to be. At this price point it is either random leftovers or the cheapest stuff they could get their hands on. Any resonance it might have is coincidental; there isn't even a cork to sniff, just a plastic cap. Tonewood in cheap guitars is as plentiful as water in the desert but if you insist on searching, be my guest.

                  Originally posted by TMD View Post
                  Just one. Prep it however they want, but at least everyone will know it’s not real mahogany.
                  A cheapo Ibby is not "real mahogany" but a lowly piece of nyatoh at best. It's not exactly a secret, nonetheless some people choose to kid themselves rather than ask.

                  The flaw in your reasoning is that one nicely made guitar in ten thousand is meaningless. As an extreme example, they could have a show piece ghostbuilt by an elite luthier for $10k and it would only take one extra dollar out of poor Joe's pocket to pay for the whole scheme.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

                    So, more dishonesty. I don’t think someone buying a $300 necessarily deserves premium tonewoods, but they don’t deserve to be lied to.
                    What’s funnier than putting up roadblocks to stop the advance of someone who’s running away from you at four hundred miles an hour?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Ibanez wood fraud

                      Originally posted by Mincer View Post
                      The AGX A2 was a very light guitar, and a pretty awesome idea. But the marketing looked especially deceptive...a lot of words for what is essentially a form of plywood with balsa in the center.
                      I always surf for RGX A2's...very cool axe. Don't care what it is made of.
                      Originally posted by Bad City
                      He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

                      Comment


                      • Re: Ibanez wood fraud

                        Originally posted by TMD View Post
                        So, more dishonesty. I don’t think someone buying a $300 necessarily deserves premium tonewoods, but they don’t deserve to be lied to.
                        no matter if you pay 300 dollars, or 3000 for a Gibson (or other)

                        You shouldn't be lied to.

                        My opinion ^^

                        If somethings important- send a PM. I might be offline for long periods. Rock on!!!

                        Comment


                        • Re: Ibanez wood fraud

                          Then you KNOW you shouldn't ever buy a $3k Gibson - because they absolutely lie about what went into that!
                          Originally posted by Bad City
                          He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

                          Comment


                          • Re: Ibanez wood fraud

                            Originally posted by Aceman View Post
                            Then you KNOW you shouldn't ever buy a $3k Gibson - because they absolutely lie about what went into that!
                            At least I paid less than that for my Explorer, which is probably papier-mâché.
                            What’s funnier than putting up roadblocks to stop the advance of someone who’s running away from you at four hundred miles an hour?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Ibanez wood fraud

                              Originally posted by vinta9e View Post
                              Dear Watson, I have found no meaningful difference between furniture grade "mahogany" and pallet grade "poplar" or whatever species it might actually be or pose to be. At this price point it is either random leftovers or the cheapest stuff they could get their hands on. Any resonance it might have is coincidental; there isn't even a cork to sniff, just a plastic cap. Tonewood in cheap guitars is as plentiful as water in the desert but if you insist on searching, be my guest.


                              A cheapo Ibby is not "real mahogany" but a lowly piece of nyatoh at best. It's not exactly a secret, nonetheless some people choose to kid themselves rather than ask.

                              The flaw in your reasoning is that one nicely made guitar in ten thousand is meaningless. As an extreme example, they could have a show piece ghostbuilt by an elite luthier for $10k and it would only take one extra dollar out of poor Joe's pocket to pay for the whole scheme.
                              unfortunately we live in a time where we really need to do our our own homework because we can't trust anyone but there should still be honesty in advertising. Regardless if Ibanez bought that wood as supposed mahogany, they have a responsibility as a manufacturer and international company to research it. They employ supposed professionals, there is no way that they didn't know what was going on. I don't give a rat's ass what it cost or what the price point was.

                              You can't tell me that Ibanez didn't know what it was. And there is no reason not to label it as it should be.
                              Last edited by solspirit; 06-27-2020, 10:01 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Ibanez wood fraud

                                Does anyone really think that any large international wood instrument company would not know enough about wood to advertise something as something else not knowingly?
                                They did this because it was an accepted term in the furniture trade because, people are uninformed or uneducated about what they are buying.
                                there is no reason that every single guitar manufacturer cannot give the Latin or scientific name for every wood that they use therefore, eliminating any confusion.
                                Last edited by solspirit; 06-27-2020, 11:02 AM.

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